4 ms·

Sure, but oil companies have the narrow view. External costs to society: they care not. Any cost they can pass on to you, they will.

Reason077 6y ago
Of course. But is it government’s role solely to boost oil company profits? Or should they consider these against long-term costs incurred by everyone? Surely there is a middle ground that works for everyone. It’s not as if major oil companies are struggling to survive.
- ianleeclark 6y ago
  > But is it government’s role solely to boost oil company profits? Or should they consider these against long-term costs incurred by everyone? We don't live in a world where we get to speculate on what the intended role of government ought to be.
  - 07t15 6y ago
    Don't we live in the world where we're free to speculate on pretty much anything?
    - ianleeclark 6y ago
      Sure, but if we're in a thread dealing with the real-life repercussions of keeping our heads in the clouds it feels a little gross.
jandrese 6y ago
Those long term costs will be a political disadvantage for liberals, as they will give the GOP plenty of talking points about how they want to take away good honest coal mining jobs. This is the long game in action. Force liberals to make the hard decisions to save the planet, then completely own them with propaganda about those decisions. It's a winning strategy. Not only in the US, but across most of the Anglo sphere. As an added bonus it provides huge payoffs to billionaires at the cost of the poor and middle class.
- Reason077 6y ago
  ”Not only in the US, but across most of the Anglo sphere.” Not in the UK. Coal use has plummeted by 84% in 5 years (84 million tonnes in 2014 to 8 million tonnes in 2019), while renewable energy has been hugely expanded. All under “right wing” (Conservative) governments. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/09/is-this-the-end-for-king-coal-in-britain https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/09/is-this-...
  - jandrese 6y ago
    Coal use has collapsed in the US too entirely for economic reasons, but it doesn't stop the politicians from making ads about how liberals are coming for your jobs because they hate your way of life and airing them constantly in rural areas.
    - mywittyname 6y ago
      The Right was smart to latch onto coal. It will never come back, so they can complain about it forever. We all know that they love to sell nostalgia. And their target demographic isn't too interested in facts, so they'll never learn the reality that it was deregulation lead to a natural gas boom, which lead to the free market dealing the death blow to coal. So they can keep selling evil job killing regulations as the reason for the decline of everything great in this country. Renewables get the headlines, but those coal plants are mostly being replaced with natural gas ones. The media reports "renewables overtake coal for the first time," which gives the false impression that solar and wind are displacing coal. But that's not what's really happening, which is that those former coal plants now burn natural gas because it's cheaper.
      - Reason077 6y ago
        > "Renewables get the headlines, but those coal plants are mostly being replaced with natural gas ones." Not true in the UK. Natural gas use has also declined, albeit only slightly, in recent years. There has also been a net loss of capacity in the past decade as more old NG plants have closed than new ones built. Meanwhile, coal, which produced 42% of all UK electricity as recently as 2012, has almost gone to zero while renewables (the bulk of which is offshore wind) are at 37% - and growing every year.

Reason077 6y ago

Of course. But is it government’s role solely to boost oil company profits? Or should they consider these against long-term costs incurred by everyone? Surely there is a middle ground that works for everyone. It’s not as if major oil companies are struggling to survive.

ianleeclark 6y ago
> But is it government’s role solely to boost oil company profits? Or should they consider these against long-term costs incurred by everyone? We don't live in a world where we get to speculate on what the intended role of government ought to be.
- 07t15 6y ago
  Don't we live in the world where we're free to speculate on pretty much anything?
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    Sure, but if we're in a thread dealing with the real-life repercussions of keeping our heads in the clouds it feels a little gross.

jandrese 6y ago

Those long term costs will be a political disadvantage for liberals, as they will give the GOP plenty of talking points about how they want to take away good honest coal mining jobs. This is the long game in action. Force liberals to make the hard decisions to save the planet, then completely own them with propaganda about those decisions. It's a winning strategy. Not only in the US, but across most of the Anglo sphere. As an added bonus it provides huge payoffs to billionaires at the cost of the poor and middle class.

Reason077 6y ago
”Not only in the US, but across most of the Anglo sphere.” Not in the UK. Coal use has plummeted by 84% in 5 years (84 million tonnes in 2014 to 8 million tonnes in 2019), while renewable energy has been hugely expanded. All under “right wing” (Conservative) governments. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/09/is-this-the-end-for-king-coal-in-britain https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/09/is-this-...
- jandrese 6y ago
  Coal use has collapsed in the US too entirely for economic reasons, but it doesn't stop the politicians from making ads about how liberals are coming for your jobs because they hate your way of life and airing them constantly in rural areas.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    The Right was smart to latch onto coal. It will never come back, so they can complain about it forever. We all know that they love to sell nostalgia. And their target demographic isn't too interested in facts, so they'll never learn the reality that it was deregulation lead to a natural gas boom, which lead to the free market dealing the death blow to coal. So they can keep selling evil job killing regulations as the reason for the decline of everything great in this country. Renewables get the headlines, but those coal plants are mostly being replaced with natural gas ones. The media reports "renewables overtake coal for the first time," which gives the false impression that solar and wind are displacing coal. But that's not what's really happening, which is that those former coal plants now burn natural gas because it's cheaper.
    - Reason077 6y ago
      > "Renewables get the headlines, but those coal plants are mostly being replaced with natural gas ones." Not true in the UK. Natural gas use has also declined, albeit only slightly, in recent years. There has also been a net loss of capacity in the past decade as more old NG plants have closed than new ones built. Meanwhile, coal, which produced 42% of all UK electricity as recently as 2012, has almost gone to zero while renewables (the bulk of which is offshore wind) are at 37% - and growing every year.