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There’s such a long list of this stuff from various companies. It’s not hard to research this at all. In terms of an anecdotal evidence... My father used to wo

There’s such a long list of this stuff from various companies. It’s not hard to research this at all. In terms of an anecdotal evidence... My father used to work for molex, one of his biggest complaints were fixing the molds after they were sent to Chinese factories. They would try to deconstruct them and couldn’t put them back together (this was the 90’s, early 2000’s). So they would be shipped back to the US operations to fix. Eventually, he ended up spending years training up Chinese to replace him (my father, in China). Molex moved much of its tool making shop to China and shut down most US tool and die making operations. Anyway, China has people who are trained, on factory floors, who are there to reverse engineer processes. This has been known for decades, companies don’t really seem to care or know (I guess that’s possible as they are outsourcing manufacturing). I have no doubt this is designed across all their industries and systems. It’s in their interest to do this. EDIT: I want to point out, there’s no longer a need for China to reverse engineer. US companies ship the designs straight to China. This is probably why we’ve seen China catch up so fast. We trained their workforce and now provide them all the IP before we build it.

wyuenho 6y ago
This has been known for decades, companies knew, and the way they dealt with this was to only give China obsolete tech or tech about to get out of date, so they didn't care. That's no longer the case as China is catching up fast and really threatening the competitive advantage of truly innovative companies all around the world.
- lettergram 6y ago
  I think part of it is moving most manufacturing to China had companies like Molex move as well (cheaper). Molex builds the molds for items (I’m sure other companies are doing this to). That means the Chinese are reviving the designs BEFORE manufacturing even starts (US or China or India). My understanding from the tool & die industry is that’s only been happening the last decade or so. IMO that’s the real issue, because it’s decimating the ability to manufacture here and sure design can happen in the US, but if you can’t build the molds for the latest tech here then it doesn’t matter. Those designs are given straight to China, no need to reverse engineer.
- Fazel94 6y ago
  Recently, Like in the case of 5G. They are the innovators and others are the catchers. I think labeling every western company as truly innovator and the Chinese ones as copy-cats is the modus operandi in the US but that is clinging to the old stereotypes in fast changing times. They built up massive expertise and are putting it into use to gain more edge on other countries including the US.
  - wyuenho 6y ago
    Huawei's contribution to 5G is probably overstated. Looking at the 3GPP rapporteur roster, a lot of work is done by Qualcomm engineers with Chinese names. This is why immigration is so important to the US in order to attract the best talents to contribute to US IP. https://www.lightreading.com/5g/huaweis-patents-wont-save-it-says-leading-analyst/a/d-id/761569 https://www.lightreading.com/5g/huaweis-patents-wont-save-it...
nitrobeast 6y ago
This seems irrelevant.
- knolax 6y ago
  Classic misdirection tactic. "what has company X done?" "company Y did this bad thing" "all companies in Z do bad thing"
  - fulafel 6y ago
    Huh? GGP: Has anyone published the evidence of Huawei being an "arm of the PRC surveillance state"? GP: My father used to work for molex, one of his biggest complaints were fixing the molds after they were sent to Chinese factories. They would try to deconstruct them and couldn’t put them back together Taking apart competitors' products is standard & ethically accepted practice virtually everywhere, there are lots of published anecdotes. Eg the one in Soul of a New Machine, where the team at Data General analyze a VAX. And there's no relevance to the surveillance state.
oasisbob 6y ago
That Molex story is great. Can only imagine how much magic is in some of those molds... trying to think through many molex connectors in terms of relief angles, tolerances, and manufacturability boggles the mind.
a9h74j 6y ago
> people who are trained, on factory floors, who are there to reverse engineer processes. I only read this once and don't know if it is true. Supposedly Technology Transfer was/is a distinct engineering specialty in China, up there perhaps with Civil, Electrical. Coincidentally this was while working with a US manufacturer which somehow could never satisfy a Tech Transfer arrangement completely enough to get the final contracted payment. (Mixed reasons there.) Frankly I wonder if China will [thus] preserve aspects of industrial civilization while the US works and/or collapses toward a relative dark age. (One case in point: nuclear power generation.)

wyuenho 6y ago

This has been known for decades, companies knew, and the way they dealt with this was to only give China obsolete tech or tech about to get out of date, so they didn't care. That's no longer the case as China is catching up fast and really threatening the competitive advantage of truly innovative companies all around the world.

lettergram 6y ago
I think part of it is moving most manufacturing to China had companies like Molex move as well (cheaper). Molex builds the molds for items (I’m sure other companies are doing this to). That means the Chinese are reviving the designs BEFORE manufacturing even starts (US or China or India). My understanding from the tool & die industry is that’s only been happening the last decade or so. IMO that’s the real issue, because it’s decimating the ability to manufacture here and sure design can happen in the US, but if you can’t build the molds for the latest tech here then it doesn’t matter. Those designs are given straight to China, no need to reverse engineer.
Fazel94 6y ago
Recently, Like in the case of 5G. They are the innovators and others are the catchers. I think labeling every western company as truly innovator and the Chinese ones as copy-cats is the modus operandi in the US but that is clinging to the old stereotypes in fast changing times. They built up massive expertise and are putting it into use to gain more edge on other countries including the US.
- wyuenho 6y ago
  Huawei's contribution to 5G is probably overstated. Looking at the 3GPP rapporteur roster, a lot of work is done by Qualcomm engineers with Chinese names. This is why immigration is so important to the US in order to attract the best talents to contribute to US IP. https://www.lightreading.com/5g/huaweis-patents-wont-save-it-says-leading-analyst/a/d-id/761569 https://www.lightreading.com/5g/huaweis-patents-wont-save-it...

nitrobeast 6y ago

This seems irrelevant.

knolax 6y ago
Classic misdirection tactic. "what has company X done?" "company Y did this bad thing" "all companies in Z do bad thing"
- fulafel 6y ago
  Huh? GGP: Has anyone published the evidence of Huawei being an "arm of the PRC surveillance state"? GP: My father used to work for molex, one of his biggest complaints were fixing the molds after they were sent to Chinese factories. They would try to deconstruct them and couldn’t put them back together Taking apart competitors' products is standard & ethically accepted practice virtually everywhere, there are lots of published anecdotes. Eg the one in Soul of a New Machine, where the team at Data General analyze a VAX. And there's no relevance to the surveillance state.

oasisbob 6y ago

That Molex story is great. Can only imagine how much magic is in some of those molds... trying to think through many molex connectors in terms of relief angles, tolerances, and manufacturability boggles the mind.

a9h74j 6y ago

> people who are trained, on factory floors, who are there to reverse engineer processes. I only read this once and don't know if it is true. Supposedly Technology Transfer was/is a distinct engineering specialty in China, up there perhaps with Civil, Electrical. Coincidentally this was while working with a US manufacturer which somehow could never satisfy a Tech Transfer arrangement completely enough to get the final contracted payment. (Mixed reasons there.) Frankly I wonder if China will [thus] preserve aspects of industrial civilization while the US works and/or collapses toward a relative dark age. (One case in point: nuclear power generation.)