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The question I think this is an answer to is how you can have a reasonable expectation of freedom and privacy while sharing an internet with a CCP who has milit

The question I think this is an answer to is how you can have a reasonable expectation of freedom and privacy while sharing an internet with a CCP who has militarized their technology sector as a means to facilitate colonial expansion. I'm no fan of anyone involved, but we should accept that the Internet as we may have known it has been compromised by exogenous governance structures and their gatekeepers in service of non- and even anti-internet agendas, and it can no longer seriously be considered a free territory for divergence and innovation. The U.S. and their Clean network seems naive in a way, but in this case, I don't object because I think it is the devil we know.

lostmsu 6y ago
Is it the devil we know though? Until the talks about TikTok started, I assumed nothing like this could ever happen in this country.
- waihtis 6y ago
  That's just how politics works in general, is it not? Big issues can underlie for ages and a single mass media event may trigger a big change.
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    The point stands: you don't know what mass media events are coming up, hence you don't know what the devil will do next.
mindslight 6y ago
Computer security does not operate around large sweeping claims of some party doing something bad, and so doing something bad in retaliation. And it's impossible for the "Internet" to be compromised - by definition it's an open network that gets packets from A to B while letting most anyone listen in. So then, what are the specific problems? If the problem is that China is copying designs, then the solution is to stop moving sensitive production there. If it is that Chinese manufacturers are putting remote backdoors in products, then the solution is to make trustable designs with open firmware, and domestic production of sensitive parts to avoid hardware backdoors. If the problem is apps with built in surveillance, then the solution is to secure mobile OSs to prevent data leakage. If the problem is that Chinese groups are shitposting to manufacture political consent, the solution is better social media filters, reputation systems, and fixing our domestic institutions (eg the press) thus hindering the ability for anyone to manufacture consent. None of these things are solved by top-down imposition of some blunt firewall, or whatever other misguided heavy handed ideas the politicians have in mind. From the perspective of network security, it's really no big deal if Internet addresses become 64 bits with the addition of a proxy.
- motohagiography 6y ago
  This appears to be a rare example of a government providing a secure perimeter for its citizens to create and innovate without being subject to a foreign totalitarian machine's global spying operation. It's not a top down imposition. Reality is, if the U.S. govt doesn't protect its networks, people and companies will have to protect themselves with encryption and hardware key management that keeps China out, which by extension means keeping US law enforcement out as well. It's a sovereignty issue.

lostmsu 6y ago

Is it the devil we know though? Until the talks about TikTok started, I assumed nothing like this could ever happen in this country.

waihtis 6y ago
That's just how politics works in general, is it not? Big issues can underlie for ages and a single mass media event may trigger a big change.
- lostmsu 6y ago
  The point stands: you don't know what mass media events are coming up, hence you don't know what the devil will do next.

mindslight 6y ago

Computer security does not operate around large sweeping claims of some party doing something bad, and so doing something bad in retaliation. And it's impossible for the "Internet" to be compromised - by definition it's an open network that gets packets from A to B while letting most anyone listen in. So then, what are the specific problems? If the problem is that China is copying designs, then the solution is to stop moving sensitive production there. If it is that Chinese manufacturers are putting remote backdoors in products, then the solution is to make trustable designs with open firmware, and domestic production of sensitive parts to avoid hardware backdoors. If the problem is apps with built in surveillance, then the solution is to secure mobile OSs to prevent data leakage. If the problem is that Chinese groups are shitposting to manufacture political consent, the solution is better social media filters, reputation systems, and fixing our domestic institutions (eg the press) thus hindering the ability for anyone to manufacture consent. None of these things are solved by top-down imposition of some blunt firewall, or whatever other misguided heavy handed ideas the politicians have in mind. From the perspective of network security, it's really no big deal if Internet addresses become 64 bits with the addition of a proxy.

motohagiography 6y ago
This appears to be a rare example of a government providing a secure perimeter for its citizens to create and innovate without being subject to a foreign totalitarian machine's global spying operation. It's not a top down imposition. Reality is, if the U.S. govt doesn't protect its networks, people and companies will have to protect themselves with encryption and hardware key management that keeps China out, which by extension means keeping US law enforcement out as well. It's a sovereignty issue.