5 ms·

Wiltshire valley locals build their own mobile phone network

124 points by ColinWright 6y ago

toomuchtodo 6y ago
I deeply enjoy and root for projects like this. Combined with similar UK projects like B4RN [1] (a rural internet coop), it disproves the notion that infra spending must be grandiose or excessive to get connectivity to the most remote areas. EDIT: Ahh, brilliant, it's even mentioned in the article: > Inspired by an earlier initiative to set up a rural broadband network in Lancashire in north-west England called B4rn, the new mobile network relies on the willingness of the community to solve the problem themselves rather than wait for the government or the industry to sort it out. [1] https://b4rn.org.uk/ https://b4rn.org.uk/
- tomalpha 6y ago
  Me too, but this made me both smile and feel sympathetic in equal measure: > it is still encountering gremlins such as the text messages it occasionally spits out welcoming people to Jersey
- kitd 6y ago
  One nice thing about this is that it doesn't need large hardware and the associated installation costs. According to the article, the local aerial installers can set it up (and presumably maintain it where needed).
madaxe_again 6y ago
£2.25M! 3 years! I am struggling to see how “50 or so” masts could come to this cost. That’s £45k a mast. I can only think they’ve gone completely custom, getting boards and possibly chips fabbed. I can’t see where the cost comes from otherwise, as this gear is cheap as chips. For what it’s worth, I’ve put up two cell masts on our property, as we live in a deep river valley with no signal, so I’m relaying UMTS on one and rebroadcasting my own cell on the one nearest to us, along with a directional 802.11n antenna to provide WiFi off the same mast. I planned it out over the course of a few days, ordered everything, set it all up and tested it out before moving here, and banged both of them up the day after we arrived. Hell, the hardest bit was climbing a cliff with a 15ft mast and a sledgehammer on my back. It’s all solar powered, and the total cost for all of the gear was under £1k. This stuff is not complicated or expensive.
- avianlyric 6y ago
  You're setting up a simple relay, piggy backing off existing telecom infrastructure to provide for one home. Reading the article I would guess that this project is bringing mobile broadband to the area > The experimental Ch4lke Mobile, which runs over just five masts, can connect homes to a network capable of delivering broadband-like speeds, in an area that had been left behind by the digital revolution. I imagine the vast majority of that cost went to digging and laying fiber for tower backhaul, something you don't need to worry about if you're just connecting one home to an existing mast with fiber backhaul.
  - madaxe_again 6y ago
    From what I understand, they are piggy-backing too - and we have broadband speeds here, not broadband-like. “The service will be provided by delivering high speed broadband to a small cell within the community which then delivers both fixed wireless broadband and 4G mobile services to users via a low power high speed radio link.” Given that there’s already BT fibre in the area, I’d imagine that’s what they’re using for their backhaul. And as to fibre backhaul - I’ve just run 300m of trenched fibre down from the mast to a really awkward spot, and including media adaptors, SWA 4x fibre, and all the rest, it came to less than £1.5k.
    - otoburb 6y ago
      >>And as to fibre backhaul - I’ve just run 300m of trenched fibre down from the mast to a really awkward spot, and including media adaptors, SWA 4x fibre, and all the rest, it came to less than £1.5k. I know it's not your fiefdom, but if the numbers are so far off it might be worth reaching out to Ch4lke Mobile (i.e. the Wiltshire Chalk Valley parish council members) or the local MP John Glen to figure out where they could cut down on superfluous costs. If they're going to roll out this type of model to other rural not-spots any cost savings that could be pragmatically realized would be fewer quid from taxpayer pockets.
    - razakel 6y ago
      >From what I understand, they are piggy-backing too - and we have broadband speeds here, not broadband-like. They're operating as a full mobile network that will also allow users of other operators to roam onto them - it's a lot more than just running a repeater. This is the kit they're using as cells: http://www.accelleran.com/products/e101/ http://www.accelleran.com/products/e101/ >£2.25M! 3 years! >I am struggling to see how “50 or so” masts could come to this cost. That’s £45k a mast. That funding is not just for this project - the funding has gone to a consortium it's part of: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-65-million-package-for-5g-trials https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-65-million-package-fo...
dang 6y ago
Another article about this is at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24107045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24107045. We merged the threads.
protomyth 6y ago
With the FCC 2.5 GHz Rural Tribal Window[1], I would expect a lot of the tribes (or their designated org) will be trying to put up their own data networks. Its nice to see others that have already succeeded, as it seems like a pain to get any information on what equipment is needed. 1) https://www.fcc.gov/25-ghz-rural-tribal-window https://www.fcc.gov/25-ghz-rural-tribal-window
- ta1234567890 6y ago
  > as it seems like a pain to get any information on what equipment is needed. Do you have any info on this? As a side note, a while back I found a company (https://rangenetworks.com/hardware https://rangenetworks.com/hardware) that developed and sold their own cell network equipment and tested it at burning man, at the time it seemed like they were the only alternative to big established players as well as the cheapest one.
  - protomyth 6y ago
    Nope, I haven't got any idea about the equipment for this. I know we will have to get something pretty soon after the spectrum is awarded.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  I checked, and all of the reservations I frequent (pre-pandemic) have applied for this. But I doubt we'll see any build-out. You can give the tribes all the spectrum you want, but unless it's satellite-delivered, there isn't the infrastructure to support it. Electricity can be very scarce on the rez. Heck, right now the Navajos are bickering about how to spend $600 million in CARES act money. Most people want to use it to get running water. A smaller portion want it to be used to run electric lines to their homes. As usual, the people in charge of the money are trying to figure out how much to put into their own pockets again.
  - protomyth 6y ago
    Uhm, no I honestly think we will see the build out. There is quite a bit of meetings going on including with the Navajos to get this one done.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
hayyyyydos 6y ago
This looks like the same James Body from Dangerous Demos (ClueCon, Kamailio World, Astricon etc) - very fortunate to have an industry veteran like him as the chair of the parish council for a project like this!
youngNed 6y ago
Whats the deal with 'newscabal' as a source?? this looks like a direct copy of this ft article: https://app.ft.com/content/e2f50ee7-7fc6-4155-bfd4-fcc4b2314847 https://app.ft.com/content/e2f50ee7-7fc6-4155-bfd4-fcc4b2314...
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
> The fledgling network has just secured part of a £2.25m government grant to fill in England’s largest “not-spot” — an area with no mobile signal — and could offer a solution to other pockets in the country blighted by a lack of coverage. Why didn't the major telcos take on the job?
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  Locals refused to let them put up antennas.

124 points by ColinWright 6y ago

I deeply enjoy and root for projects like this. Combined with similar UK projects like B4RN [1] (a rural internet coop), it disproves the notion that infra spending must be grandiose or excessive to get connectivity to the most remote areas. EDIT: Ahh, brilliant, it's even mentioned in the article: > Inspired by an earlier initiative to set up a rural broadband network in Lancashire in north-west England called B4rn, the new mobile network relies on the willingness of the community to solve the problem themselves rather than wait for the government or the industry to sort it out. [1] https://b4rn.org.uk/ https://b4rn.org.uk/

tomalpha 6y ago
Me too, but this made me both smile and feel sympathetic in equal measure: > it is still encountering gremlins such as the text messages it occasionally spits out welcoming people to Jersey
kitd 6y ago
One nice thing about this is that it doesn't need large hardware and the associated installation costs. According to the article, the local aerial installers can set it up (and presumably maintain it where needed).

madaxe_again 6y ago

£2.25M! 3 years! I am struggling to see how “50 or so” masts could come to this cost. That’s £45k a mast. I can only think they’ve gone completely custom, getting boards and possibly chips fabbed. I can’t see where the cost comes from otherwise, as this gear is cheap as chips. For what it’s worth, I’ve put up two cell masts on our property, as we live in a deep river valley with no signal, so I’m relaying UMTS on one and rebroadcasting my own cell on the one nearest to us, along with a directional 802.11n antenna to provide WiFi off the same mast. I planned it out over the course of a few days, ordered everything, set it all up and tested it out before moving here, and banged both of them up the day after we arrived. Hell, the hardest bit was climbing a cliff with a 15ft mast and a sledgehammer on my back. It’s all solar powered, and the total cost for all of the gear was under £1k. This stuff is not complicated or expensive.

avianlyric 6y ago
You're setting up a simple relay, piggy backing off existing telecom infrastructure to provide for one home. Reading the article I would guess that this project is bringing mobile broadband to the area > The experimental Ch4lke Mobile, which runs over just five masts, can connect homes to a network capable of delivering broadband-like speeds, in an area that had been left behind by the digital revolution. I imagine the vast majority of that cost went to digging and laying fiber for tower backhaul, something you don't need to worry about if you're just connecting one home to an existing mast with fiber backhaul.
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  From what I understand, they are piggy-backing too - and we have broadband speeds here, not broadband-like. “The service will be provided by delivering high speed broadband to a small cell within the community which then delivers both fixed wireless broadband and 4G mobile services to users via a low power high speed radio link.” Given that there’s already BT fibre in the area, I’d imagine that’s what they’re using for their backhaul. And as to fibre backhaul - I’ve just run 300m of trenched fibre down from the mast to a really awkward spot, and including media adaptors, SWA 4x fibre, and all the rest, it came to less than £1.5k.
  - otoburb 6y ago
    >>And as to fibre backhaul - I’ve just run 300m of trenched fibre down from the mast to a really awkward spot, and including media adaptors, SWA 4x fibre, and all the rest, it came to less than £1.5k. I know it's not your fiefdom, but if the numbers are so far off it might be worth reaching out to Ch4lke Mobile (i.e. the Wiltshire Chalk Valley parish council members) or the local MP John Glen to figure out where they could cut down on superfluous costs. If they're going to roll out this type of model to other rural not-spots any cost savings that could be pragmatically realized would be fewer quid from taxpayer pockets.
  - razakel 6y ago
    >From what I understand, they are piggy-backing too - and we have broadband speeds here, not broadband-like. They're operating as a full mobile network that will also allow users of other operators to roam onto them - it's a lot more than just running a repeater. This is the kit they're using as cells: http://www.accelleran.com/products/e101/ http://www.accelleran.com/products/e101/ >£2.25M! 3 years! >I am struggling to see how “50 or so” masts could come to this cost. That’s £45k a mast. That funding is not just for this project - the funding has gone to a consortium it's part of: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-65-million-package-for-5g-trials https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-65-million-package-fo...

dang 6y ago

Another article about this is at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24107045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24107045. We merged the threads.

protomyth 6y ago

With the FCC 2.5 GHz Rural Tribal Window[1], I would expect a lot of the tribes (or their designated org) will be trying to put up their own data networks. Its nice to see others that have already succeeded, as it seems like a pain to get any information on what equipment is needed. 1) https://www.fcc.gov/25-ghz-rural-tribal-window https://www.fcc.gov/25-ghz-rural-tribal-window

ta1234567890 6y ago
> as it seems like a pain to get any information on what equipment is needed. Do you have any info on this? As a side note, a while back I found a company (https://rangenetworks.com/hardware https://rangenetworks.com/hardware) that developed and sold their own cell network equipment and tested it at burning man, at the time it seemed like they were the only alternative to big established players as well as the cheapest one.
- protomyth 6y ago
  Nope, I haven't got any idea about the equipment for this. I know we will have to get something pretty soon after the spectrum is awarded.
reaperducer 6y ago
I checked, and all of the reservations I frequent (pre-pandemic) have applied for this. But I doubt we'll see any build-out. You can give the tribes all the spectrum you want, but unless it's satellite-delivered, there isn't the infrastructure to support it. Electricity can be very scarce on the rez. Heck, right now the Navajos are bickering about how to spend $600 million in CARES act money. Most people want to use it to get running water. A smaller portion want it to be used to run electric lines to their homes. As usual, the people in charge of the money are trying to figure out how much to put into their own pockets again.
- protomyth 6y ago
  Uhm, no I honestly think we will see the build out. There is quite a bit of meetings going on including with the Navajos to get this one done.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

hayyyyydos 6y ago

This looks like the same James Body from Dangerous Demos (ClueCon, Kamailio World, Astricon etc) - very fortunate to have an industry veteran like him as the chair of the parish council for a project like this!

youngNed 6y ago

Whats the deal with 'newscabal' as a source?? this looks like a direct copy of this ft article: https://app.ft.com/content/e2f50ee7-7fc6-4155-bfd4-fcc4b2314847 https://app.ft.com/content/e2f50ee7-7fc6-4155-bfd4-fcc4b2314...

MaxBarraclough 6y ago

> The fledgling network has just secured part of a £2.25m government grant to fill in England’s largest “not-spot” — an area with no mobile signal — and could offer a solution to other pockets in the country blighted by a lack of coverage. Why didn't the major telcos take on the job?

LatteLazy 6y ago
Locals refused to let them put up antennas.