5 ms·

Frankly, provided you have error checking logic and don't store them next to a magnet... floppy disks are pretty damn bulletproof. I've had way more issues per-

Frankly, provided you have error checking logic and don't store them next to a magnet... floppy disks are pretty damn bulletproof. I've had way more issues per-use reading a thumb drive or a CD/DVD-ROM than I ever did reading floppy disks.

virtue3 6y ago
plus CD-Rs might not last a decade!
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  Wouldn't matter, we're discussing the storage medium used to perform the software update, not the format used to store the software in the aircraft.
bartread 6y ago
Yep. Only a single datapoint, but I've had more issues with flash drives and USB sticks than I've ever had with floppies. CDRs are next level in terms of unreliability. Last year I discovered that almost none of the CDRs I'd burned in the early to mid noughties remain readable: simply had to destroy them.
gspr 6y ago
Really? I'm not doubting you, but I'm surprised. I only used them up until I was maybe 10 or 12 years old, but I still vividly remember often having to go through a couple of floppies from my drawer to find one that was working. And yelling at my little brother for putting a bad one back in the drawer. Are they really that robust? Was I just storing them stupidly maybe? Or maybe it was because all the ones we had were used ones from work.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
  Anecdotally, the last time I looked at any of my 30+ year old 3.5" floppies, they all worked fine. Of course, back then I knew enough to spend a bit more on the good quality ones, so that could have something to do with it.
- MrDOS 6y ago
  I have similar memories from around the time when USB sticks started gaining popularity. I think floppy disk manufacturers started slacking off on QA through the last few years of large-scale manufacturing. They certainly didn't used to be that bad.
  - rleigh 6y ago
    The final years of 3.5" floppy manufacture were bad. I think the quality was tailing off from the mid nineties. But it could equally be poor quality of the drive manufacture as well. Certainly 5.25" floppies from the late 80s and early 90s were nearly bulletproof in my experience. 1.2MB was a bit flakier than the 360KB though. All were still perfectly readable 20 years later, though at this point they all got thrown in the bin due to their obsolescence!
- outworlder 6y ago
  > Are they really that robust? Not very. There's significant wear and tear from the drive head, to the point that you could see it with the naked eye after a while. If you are not using them frequently, storing under ideal conditions, than maybe. I've been able to read floppies a decade after they were written. Not for long though. Drive required cleaning afterwards too.
jobigoud 6y ago
Per use maybe but what about per byte?
Tempest1981 6y ago
I found a box of old floppies... the media had become unglued from the metal center ring. Maybe other brands use better glue to make them bulletproof, these were not.
- helb 6y ago
  On the other hand, that was probably pretty easy (or at least possible) to fix, if you really wanted or needed to…
fnordfnordfnord 6y ago
My experience is just the opposite. Have had to replace more floppy drives than I can count. Used to work in a dusty environment, but that alone doesn't explain the failure rate.

virtue3 6y ago

plus CD-Rs might not last a decade!

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
Wouldn't matter, we're discussing the storage medium used to perform the software update, not the format used to store the software in the aircraft.

bartread 6y ago

Yep. Only a single datapoint, but I've had more issues with flash drives and USB sticks than I've ever had with floppies. CDRs are next level in terms of unreliability. Last year I discovered that almost none of the CDRs I'd burned in the early to mid noughties remain readable: simply had to destroy them.

gspr 6y ago

Really? I'm not doubting you, but I'm surprised. I only used them up until I was maybe 10 or 12 years old, but I still vividly remember often having to go through a couple of floppies from my drawer to find one that was working. And yelling at my little brother for putting a bad one back in the drawer. Are they really that robust? Was I just storing them stupidly maybe? Or maybe it was because all the ones we had were used ones from work.

HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
Anecdotally, the last time I looked at any of my 30+ year old 3.5" floppies, they all worked fine. Of course, back then I knew enough to spend a bit more on the good quality ones, so that could have something to do with it.
MrDOS 6y ago
I have similar memories from around the time when USB sticks started gaining popularity. I think floppy disk manufacturers started slacking off on QA through the last few years of large-scale manufacturing. They certainly didn't used to be that bad.
- rleigh 6y ago
  The final years of 3.5" floppy manufacture were bad. I think the quality was tailing off from the mid nineties. But it could equally be poor quality of the drive manufacture as well. Certainly 5.25" floppies from the late 80s and early 90s were nearly bulletproof in my experience. 1.2MB was a bit flakier than the 360KB though. All were still perfectly readable 20 years later, though at this point they all got thrown in the bin due to their obsolescence!
outworlder 6y ago
> Are they really that robust? Not very. There's significant wear and tear from the drive head, to the point that you could see it with the naked eye after a while. If you are not using them frequently, storing under ideal conditions, than maybe. I've been able to read floppies a decade after they were written. Not for long though. Drive required cleaning afterwards too.

jobigoud 6y ago

Per use maybe but what about per byte?

Tempest1981 6y ago

I found a box of old floppies... the media had become unglued from the metal center ring. Maybe other brands use better glue to make them bulletproof, these were not.

helb 6y ago
On the other hand, that was probably pretty easy (or at least possible) to fix, if you really wanted or needed to…

fnordfnordfnord 6y ago

My experience is just the opposite. Have had to replace more floppy drives than I can count. Used to work in a dusty environment, but that alone doesn't explain the failure rate.