4 ms·

weird, my Alfa Romeo user manual is 270 pages filled with graphics (literally, they are jpeg scanned to a pdf) and loads instantly even on my mobile phone

corty 6y ago
The first page is rendered instantly you mean. PDF, at least when generated by a sane generator, can be parsed pagewise. HTML cannot, you always have to parse everything in a page to do layout, because later objects can change or overlay earlier ones.
- Santosh83 6y ago
  This is being partly addressed in the latest draft CSS specifications... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24093273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24093273
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  Is PDF still unstreamable? AFAIK, the TOC (catalog?) in a PDF was located at the end of the file, meaning the whole PDF had to come down in order to parse the PDF. (With the exception of the first page, as you say — some aspect of the PDF spec allowed for a self-contained page 1.)
  - nogridbag 6y ago
    There are libraries to linearize PDFs but not all PDFs can be converted. Some of the more popular open source PDF libraries do not support it though.
  - hnick 6y ago
    Linearized PDF has existed as a concept since v1.2 which I think was released in 1996. You can see it mentioned in the v1.4 spec at https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/pdf/pdfs/pdf_reference_archives/PDFReference.pdf https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/pdf/pdfs/pd... [follow the link from the contents].
- LoSboccacc 6y ago
  https://streamable.com/erlsy6 https://streamable.com/erlsy6 I rest my case
- goto11 6y ago
  > HTML cannot, you always have to parse everything in a page to do layout, because later objects can change or overlay earlier ones. HTML is progressively rendered by default. This has been a feature since Netscape 1.0! It is only if you use certain types of layout this is not possible. For example an adaptive table have to be fully loaded before the width of the columns can be calculated.
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    And it was a very important feature too, back when internet was slow.

corty 6y ago

The first page is rendered instantly you mean. PDF, at least when generated by a sane generator, can be parsed pagewise. HTML cannot, you always have to parse everything in a page to do layout, because later objects can change or overlay earlier ones.

Santosh83 6y ago
This is being partly addressed in the latest draft CSS specifications... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24093273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24093273
JKCalhoun 6y ago
Is PDF still unstreamable? AFAIK, the TOC (catalog?) in a PDF was located at the end of the file, meaning the whole PDF had to come down in order to parse the PDF. (With the exception of the first page, as you say — some aspect of the PDF spec allowed for a self-contained page 1.)
- nogridbag 6y ago
  There are libraries to linearize PDFs but not all PDFs can be converted. Some of the more popular open source PDF libraries do not support it though.
- hnick 6y ago
  Linearized PDF has existed as a concept since v1.2 which I think was released in 1996. You can see it mentioned in the v1.4 spec at https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/pdf/pdfs/pdf_reference_archives/PDFReference.pdf https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/devnet/pdf/pdfs/pd... [follow the link from the contents].
LoSboccacc 6y ago
https://streamable.com/erlsy6 https://streamable.com/erlsy6 I rest my case
goto11 6y ago
> HTML cannot, you always have to parse everything in a page to do layout, because later objects can change or overlay earlier ones. HTML is progressively rendered by default. This has been a feature since Netscape 1.0! It is only if you use certain types of layout this is not possible. For example an adaptive table have to be fully loaded before the width of the columns can be calculated.
- im3w1l 6y ago
  And it was a very important feature too, back when internet was slow.