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Just because I'm happy to pay taxes doesn't mean that I'm happy with the ways that money is spent. But I can recognize the inherent need for _some_ entity to s

by jmcqk6 6y ago

Just because I'm happy to pay taxes doesn't mean that I'm happy with the ways that money is spent. But I can recognize the inherent need for _some_ entity to serve in this function, and I'm glad that I have one that I can participant in. There is literally no citizen in the world that is completely happy with their country. That is part of being human. Because our views are so diverse, it's impossible to form large groups of people without those types of disagreements. I didn't get a choice about being born, either, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to do what I can with what I have instead of pining for a reality that will never exist.

feralimal 6y ago
You participate once every 5 years in voting for one of 2 meaningful options on a list of ~5-15 issues. No one is happy with that choice. Then, say 50% of the populace vote, 25% get the person who they voted for in. So the 25% (who do not feel fully represented) get to rule over the other 75% who know they are not represented. Basically we all pay taxes into a system that no one feels happy about. And when you think about it, it isn't about what's right - it comes down to who has the force. Its a mafioso monetary extraction system, that indoctrinates its victims. 'Stockholm Syndrome' is the psychological term for when you love your captor; most people who support the government system suffer with this. As a group of people our views are diverse. That's good, right? Large groups of people are hard to manage. So don't manage them. I don't seek to manage other people's affairs. Government is the solution to a problem that doesn't exist - managing lots of people. People should be self-managing. PS There's a difference between jumping to the defence of a system that no one is happy with, and finding a way to survive in a system that is collectivising and dehumanising. In supporting the system as you do, you are literally a turkey voting for Christmas. Sorry if that's harsh, but that's really how I see it.
- jmcqk6 6y ago
  You have an opinion, not a fact. If you think "participation" is only about voting once every 5 years, then you are part of the problem. Although since you say five years instead of 4, perhaps I shouldn't assume you're american. Participation in democracy is about more than voting, especially if you're only voting in a fraction of the elections.
  - feralimal 6y ago
    I have an argument, a hypothesis. I have tested it and I don't find it wanting. You have an opinion. You don't have an argument. 4 or 5 years, I won't quibble. And oh, how else do you participate in democracy, except for voting? Does one stand for election? And for me, if I am settled in my thinking that no one represents me and I don't want a part of the extortion system that is in place, do I have to do whatever some group of people say is right to do because they can force me, even though I am doing no harm to another?
    - jmcqk6 6y ago
      Voting is the starting point for participating in democracy. Then you need to make sure you're informed the best you can - this can demand that you move beyond your comfort zone to understand things that you do not. You need to interact with your representatives and hole them accountable. There are many more ways to participate in governance. Your hypothesis fails horribly to manage problems that can be classified under "The problem of the commons." You talk about how people should be able to manage themselves, as though that's all government is doing: managing people. But that's not right at all. Like I said, you're really demonstrating that you don't have an understanding of what government actually does. And even you think that humans should be self-managing, that doesn't magically make them so. Reality quite obviously and repeatedly contradicts this.
      - feralimal 6y ago
        I'm fine to carry on this conversation, but I'm surprised to find that its been flagged. Why? Whether you agree with what I say or not, I think I am expressing a valid viewpoint. I don't think I have been rude or abusive. Do you? Frankly, I don't even know what being flagged means. How does one do it? Will I be banned for my comments?
        jmcqk6 6y ago
        I don't know anything about being flagged either. If something was flagged here, it wasn't I that did it.

by jmcqk6 6y ago

feralimal 6y ago

You participate once every 5 years in voting for one of 2 meaningful options on a list of ~5-15 issues. No one is happy with that choice. Then, say 50% of the populace vote, 25% get the person who they voted for in. So the 25% (who do not feel fully represented) get to rule over the other 75% who know they are not represented. Basically we all pay taxes into a system that no one feels happy about. And when you think about it, it isn't about what's right - it comes down to who has the force. Its a mafioso monetary extraction system, that indoctrinates its victims. 'Stockholm Syndrome' is the psychological term for when you love your captor; most people who support the government system suffer with this. As a group of people our views are diverse. That's good, right? Large groups of people are hard to manage. So don't manage them. I don't seek to manage other people's affairs. Government is the solution to a problem that doesn't exist - managing lots of people. People should be self-managing. PS There's a difference between jumping to the defence of a system that no one is happy with, and finding a way to survive in a system that is collectivising and dehumanising. In supporting the system as you do, you are literally a turkey voting for Christmas. Sorry if that's harsh, but that's really how I see it.

jmcqk6 6y ago
You have an opinion, not a fact. If you think "participation" is only about voting once every 5 years, then you are part of the problem. Although since you say five years instead of 4, perhaps I shouldn't assume you're american. Participation in democracy is about more than voting, especially if you're only voting in a fraction of the elections.
- feralimal 6y ago
  I have an argument, a hypothesis. I have tested it and I don't find it wanting. You have an opinion. You don't have an argument. 4 or 5 years, I won't quibble. And oh, how else do you participate in democracy, except for voting? Does one stand for election? And for me, if I am settled in my thinking that no one represents me and I don't want a part of the extortion system that is in place, do I have to do whatever some group of people say is right to do because they can force me, even though I am doing no harm to another?
  - jmcqk6 6y ago
    Voting is the starting point for participating in democracy. Then you need to make sure you're informed the best you can - this can demand that you move beyond your comfort zone to understand things that you do not. You need to interact with your representatives and hole them accountable. There are many more ways to participate in governance. Your hypothesis fails horribly to manage problems that can be classified under "The problem of the commons." You talk about how people should be able to manage themselves, as though that's all government is doing: managing people. But that's not right at all. Like I said, you're really demonstrating that you don't have an understanding of what government actually does. And even you think that humans should be self-managing, that doesn't magically make them so. Reality quite obviously and repeatedly contradicts this.
    - feralimal 6y ago
      I'm fine to carry on this conversation, but I'm surprised to find that its been flagged. Why? Whether you agree with what I say or not, I think I am expressing a valid viewpoint. I don't think I have been rude or abusive. Do you? Frankly, I don't even know what being flagged means. How does one do it? Will I be banned for my comments?
      - jmcqk6 6y ago
        I don't know anything about being flagged either. If something was flagged here, it wasn't I that did it.