4 ms·

Don't know why this gets downvoted. Eco-fascism seems to be a valid candidate for the next societal nightmare. The "Right" has not yet discovered ecology as a

by esarbe 6y ago

Don't know why this gets downvoted. Eco-fascism seems to be a valid candidate for the next societal nightmare. The "Right" has not yet discovered ecology as a trigger (especially the "Extreme Right") but I reckon that's only a matter of time. It might not be any of the organizations that exist today, but the point still stands. That said; I don't consider combating the climate crisis a "quixotic quest". I consider it the only way forward for humanity.

chrisco255 6y ago
I don't believe we have a crisis. By any measurable standard the plant kingdom is doing phenomenally well under the current climate, with CO2 acting as a fertilizer as noted by NASA. I also do not think that CO2 PPM is a climate control knob. There are far more mechanisms in the climate system than simply CO2 and we have absolutely no control over those. A good super volcano would plunge the earth into a mini ice age and then fossil fuels would be the last of our worries, as we'd be more worried about growing enough food to survive. We should be teaching adaptability and be prepared for any outcome, not having any illusions of control over nature. https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fer...
- esarbe 6y ago
  > I don't believe we have a crisis I'm inclined to emphatically disagree, even just on a political level; climate is already changing, rendering huge swaths of the Earth inhabitable. This will force people to migrate to (literally) greener pastures. Within the next 25 years we'll have millions of people on the run. This will put unprecedented pressure on all our political systems. Given how miserably Europe failed addressing the Syrian refugee crisis, I do not have high hopes for the coming Climate refugee crisis to result in anything but more political extremism. I can already hear them say "Das Boot is voll". > By any measurable standard the plant kingdom is doing phenomenally well under the current climate, with CO2 acting as a fertilizer as noted by NASA. My worry is less about plants and more about human civilization. > There are far more mechanisms in the climate system than simply CO2 and we have absolutely no control over those. True, but CO2 is the one mechanism we've turned up to 11. Maybe we can start turning it down to 0 and simultaneously figure out how to deal with the methane that has started to leak from the Siberian permafrost and from the ocean bottom. > A good super volcano would plunge the earth into a mini ice age and then fossil fuels would be the last of our worries, as we'd be more worried about growing enough food to survive. There's also nothing that we can do about a super vulcano. Or a galactic gama ray burst. It's within our capabilities to deal with antropogenic climate change. > I also do not think that CO2 PPM is a climate control knob. I also don't see CO2 PPM as a knob. It's probably more of a ratchet. We should stop ratcheting. > We should be teaching adaptability and be prepared for any outcome, not having any illusions of control over nature. Control is an illusion, agreed. But even if you cannot control an outcome, you can still try to influence it. Also, I don't see how this helps the vast majority of humanity that has yet to reach a decent living style. Since many of these areas have yet to build up sufficient educational infrastructure, how do you expect these countries to be able to prepare? What would a lecture in "Adaptability" or "Preparedness for Any Situation 101" look like? And since we already know the situation we're going to be in - why not mitigate the as much of the damage as we can, while we can?

by esarbe 6y ago

chrisco255 6y ago

I don't believe we have a crisis. By any measurable standard the plant kingdom is doing phenomenally well under the current climate, with CO2 acting as a fertilizer as noted by NASA. I also do not think that CO2 PPM is a climate control knob. There are far more mechanisms in the climate system than simply CO2 and we have absolutely no control over those. A good super volcano would plunge the earth into a mini ice age and then fossil fuels would be the last of our worries, as we'd be more worried about growing enough food to survive. We should be teaching adaptability and be prepared for any outcome, not having any illusions of control over nature. https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fer...

esarbe 6y ago
> I don't believe we have a crisis I'm inclined to emphatically disagree, even just on a political level; climate is already changing, rendering huge swaths of the Earth inhabitable. This will force people to migrate to (literally) greener pastures. Within the next 25 years we'll have millions of people on the run. This will put unprecedented pressure on all our political systems. Given how miserably Europe failed addressing the Syrian refugee crisis, I do not have high hopes for the coming Climate refugee crisis to result in anything but more political extremism. I can already hear them say "Das Boot is voll". > By any measurable standard the plant kingdom is doing phenomenally well under the current climate, with CO2 acting as a fertilizer as noted by NASA. My worry is less about plants and more about human civilization. > There are far more mechanisms in the climate system than simply CO2 and we have absolutely no control over those. True, but CO2 is the one mechanism we've turned up to 11. Maybe we can start turning it down to 0 and simultaneously figure out how to deal with the methane that has started to leak from the Siberian permafrost and from the ocean bottom. > A good super volcano would plunge the earth into a mini ice age and then fossil fuels would be the last of our worries, as we'd be more worried about growing enough food to survive. There's also nothing that we can do about a super vulcano. Or a galactic gama ray burst. It's within our capabilities to deal with antropogenic climate change. > I also do not think that CO2 PPM is a climate control knob. I also don't see CO2 PPM as a knob. It's probably more of a ratchet. We should stop ratcheting. > We should be teaching adaptability and be prepared for any outcome, not having any illusions of control over nature. Control is an illusion, agreed. But even if you cannot control an outcome, you can still try to influence it. Also, I don't see how this helps the vast majority of humanity that has yet to reach a decent living style. Since many of these areas have yet to build up sufficient educational infrastructure, how do you expect these countries to be able to prepare? What would a lecture in "Adaptability" or "Preparedness for Any Situation 101" look like? And since we already know the situation we're going to be in - why not mitigate the as much of the damage as we can, while we can?