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== You can tell it's a conspiracy theory because it's filled with stupid internal contradictions, like that Times article which claims the Russian accounts are

== You can tell it's a conspiracy theory because it's filled with stupid internal contradictions, like that Times article which claims the Russian accounts are both human and "cyborg", which they define as "automated but with human involvement" (which is it and why automate if you still need human involvement), or that the posts are simultaneously pro-Brexit and also pro-Remain== Processes being “automated with human involvement” is not new or a hoax. It happens all the time, all over the world, in all types of industries. Ask someone who works in manufacturing, writing bots, or in customer service. And yes, the posts can be contradictory. Especially because the motive (as outlined by a bi-partisan Senate Intelligence Committee report) is to sow chaos. Promoting two extremes certainly helps do that. FYI, I’m not going to respond to this thread any further. You have clearly dug in to your stance and don’t seem open to other views. You are literally creating a new, unfounded conspiracy to de-bunk an established, documented conspiracy. Final question: If someone is falsely accused of murder, does that mean there is never murder or that in a particular case, a mistake was made?

thu2111 6y ago
Remember: the original stated motive of these supposed bots wasn't to "sow chaos", it was to support Trump and Brexit using huge networks of bots that appeared human but weren't. When the evidence that this wasn't real became overwhelming, the conspiracy mutated. The whole idea that people disagreeing with each other on Twitter is sufficient to sow chaos is itself kind of ridiculous, don't you think? That happens all the time naturally, what kind of government looks at the USA or Europe and thinks, ah yes, a totally peaceful place in which nobody ever disagrees on Twitter. If this were true the only things people would fight about on social media are things where Russia could credibly have an interest, but of course they fight about everything. Even the premise of this conspiracy is ridiculous. You are literally creating a new, unfounded conspiracy to de-bunk an established, documented conspiracy Sigh. This is what I mean. I'm alleging no conspiracy. Where did I do that? You don't need a conspiracy theory to work out why "Russiagate" took off - it gave lots of people whose grip on reality isn't that strong an explanation for Trump and Brexit that they preferred to the real explanations. No conspiracy needed, no evil puppet masters, just group psychology. Compare that to Russiagate or QAnon - specific allegations of an organised group of people manipulating the world for evil ends, and denying they're doing it. If someone is falsely accused of murder, does that mean there is never murder or that in a particular case, a mistake was made? Obviously it can mean either. But the justice system has mechanisms to stop someone constantly accusing someone else of murder with ever changing stories and no evidence: the concept of double jeopardy and perversion of justice. That's why people don't have to deal with endless troll accusations of murder. Seen as a criminal justice case, Russiagate would have ended in "not guilty" long ago. The given motive collapsed under cross-examination. The evidence is highly circumstantial and all has obvious alternative explanations. The guilty parties aren't usually named, and when they are named they turn out to not be Russian, or not be bots, or both. The alleged behaviour isn't even illegal; after all the USA deliberately and openly funds foreign propaganda outlets like Voice of America.
- take_a_breath 6y ago
  More information from the Senate Intelligence Committee [1] [2]: "Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign chairman Paul Manafort worked closely with a Russian intelligence officer who may have been involved in the hack and release of Democratic emails during the election, the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded in a bipartisan report released Tuesday." "In particular, the committee’s investigation found that Manafort “represented a grave counterintelligence threat” due to his relationship with Kilimnik and other Russians connected to the country’s intelligence services — a bombshell conclusion that underscores how Russia developed a pipeline directly to the upper echelons of a U.S. presidential campaign." Politico Article [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/18/manafort-worked-with-russian-intel-officer-who-may-have-been-involved-in-dnc-hack-senate-panel-says-397597 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/18/manafort-worked-wit... Actual Report [2] https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/docu...

thu2111 6y ago

Remember: the original stated motive of these supposed bots wasn't to "sow chaos", it was to support Trump and Brexit using huge networks of bots that appeared human but weren't. When the evidence that this wasn't real became overwhelming, the conspiracy mutated. The whole idea that people disagreeing with each other on Twitter is sufficient to sow chaos is itself kind of ridiculous, don't you think? That happens all the time naturally, what kind of government looks at the USA or Europe and thinks, ah yes, a totally peaceful place in which nobody ever disagrees on Twitter. If this were true the only things people would fight about on social media are things where Russia could credibly have an interest, but of course they fight about everything. Even the premise of this conspiracy is ridiculous. You are literally creating a new, unfounded conspiracy to de-bunk an established, documented conspiracy Sigh. This is what I mean. I'm alleging no conspiracy. Where did I do that? You don't need a conspiracy theory to work out why "Russiagate" took off - it gave lots of people whose grip on reality isn't that strong an explanation for Trump and Brexit that they preferred to the real explanations. No conspiracy needed, no evil puppet masters, just group psychology. Compare that to Russiagate or QAnon - specific allegations of an organised group of people manipulating the world for evil ends, and denying they're doing it. If someone is falsely accused of murder, does that mean there is never murder or that in a particular case, a mistake was made? Obviously it can mean either. But the justice system has mechanisms to stop someone constantly accusing someone else of murder with ever changing stories and no evidence: the concept of double jeopardy and perversion of justice. That's why people don't have to deal with endless troll accusations of murder. Seen as a criminal justice case, Russiagate would have ended in "not guilty" long ago. The given motive collapsed under cross-examination. The evidence is highly circumstantial and all has obvious alternative explanations. The guilty parties aren't usually named, and when they are named they turn out to not be Russian, or not be bots, or both. The alleged behaviour isn't even illegal; after all the USA deliberately and openly funds foreign propaganda outlets like Voice of America.

take_a_breath 6y ago
More information from the Senate Intelligence Committee [1] [2]: "Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign chairman Paul Manafort worked closely with a Russian intelligence officer who may have been involved in the hack and release of Democratic emails during the election, the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded in a bipartisan report released Tuesday." "In particular, the committee’s investigation found that Manafort “represented a grave counterintelligence threat” due to his relationship with Kilimnik and other Russians connected to the country’s intelligence services — a bombshell conclusion that underscores how Russia developed a pipeline directly to the upper echelons of a U.S. presidential campaign." Politico Article [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/18/manafort-worked-with-russian-intel-officer-who-may-have-been-involved-in-dnc-hack-senate-panel-says-397597 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/18/manafort-worked-wit... Actual Report [2] https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/docu...