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As much as I respect his ideas, god he is cringeworthy.

oneil 6y ago
He can be; his 'free software song' certainly makes me cringe.. Edit (added link): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJUDx7iEJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJUDx7iEJw
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  Man, times have a'changed... I remember back in the late 90s at one of (GNU/)Linux shows (was it in Paris?) RMS arrived and started singing this song, many people joined in marching, it was a very happy and positive event. Of course everybode knew it's a kind of joke, just like the whole St. iGNUcius thing, but at the same time the general idea of sharing the code with others as opposed to hiding it seemed quite serious and meaningful. And so it continues to this day.
- enriquto 6y ago
  I actually like this song, and the several covers people has performed of it.
b3kart 6y ago
Not being afraid of coming across as cringeworthy might contribute to producing the original ideas that you respect.
- throwanem 6y ago
  There's a difference between not being afraid of coming across as cringeworthy, and coming across as cringeworthy. The former doesn't ennoble the latter, and for someone who chose the role of not only originating ideas but seeking also to make them popular, the latter is a real problem.
  - b3kart 6y ago
    A good point re him having two roles. Speaking your mind and expressing yourself freely are both paramount for a good thinker, while both are anathemas for anything that has to do with people’s opinion and politics. Maybe the two roles just don’t combine very well.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      It might be similar to the concept of code-shifting in linguistics. That depends on the ability to "read a room", and whatever Stallman's virtues, that has never seemed to me to be among his skills. To draw a comparison which will certainly infuriate everyone, Stallman might usefully be considered as a Wozniak desperately in need of a Jobs.
wizzwizz4 6y ago
He's like Cassandra, except a tad insufferable instead of cursed. Social skills are boring to work on, but he's a political activist; those should be a priority for him. He's usually right, but that doesn't mean he has to say things all the time! (Or, rather, he could probably pick more opportune moments, while retaining most of the frequency, and be listened to more.) Plus, the kinds of jokes you make with your friends are not necessarily the kinds of jokes you should be making on stage, during a talk about free software, in front of a wide audience of strangers. Though I hear he's got a lot better at this in the last half-decade, so perhaps this criticism is no longer warranted.
- throwanem 6y ago
  He could not have gotten much worse at it. Where have you heard he got better?
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    I haven't heard any “Richard Stallman ad-libbed one of his comedy skits badly and made members of the audience feel uncomfortable” stories since 2010 at the latest. I haven't heard he got better; I've just stopped hearing complaints. From this, I infer that he got better. One of the more hidden benefits of people being more willing to raise concerns like this is that people bad at noticing that they're doing stuff wrong get told it – and then, if they care, they get better. (And if they don't get better, keep shaming them; even if they care, just caring isn't enough.) I would rather people focused more on legitimate complaints like these, even though they aren't snazzy enough to make newspapers; making up stuff like “Richard Stallman supports child sexual abuse” helps nobody (except sensationalist newspapers, but they're not worth helping), whereas calling out the many small components of systematic injustices (e.g. many women feeling excluded from tech and hackerdom because they're women) helps many.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      Well, I can attest from personal experience that he was still stuffing his foot in his mouth that way as late as 2016; I didn't leave the talk, but I saw enough people do so that it was clearly not by happenstance. I've discussed the incidents of that talk before on Hacker News, at considerable length and in the face of the same anger borne of discomfited hero worship that seems to attend every criticism of Stallman's behavior. If you're interested in the details of that discussion, I'll ask you to find it in my comment history here, as I have occasions today both more urgent and more appealing than to attract yet another tiresome crowd of would-be shouters-down.

He can be; his 'free software song' certainly makes me cringe.. Edit (added link): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJUDx7iEJw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJUDx7iEJw

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
Man, times have a'changed... I remember back in the late 90s at one of (GNU/)Linux shows (was it in Paris?) RMS arrived and started singing this song, many people joined in marching, it was a very happy and positive event. Of course everybode knew it's a kind of joke, just like the whole St. iGNUcius thing, but at the same time the general idea of sharing the code with others as opposed to hiding it seemed quite serious and meaningful. And so it continues to this day.
enriquto 6y ago
I actually like this song, and the several covers people has performed of it.

b3kart 6y ago

Not being afraid of coming across as cringeworthy might contribute to producing the original ideas that you respect.

throwanem 6y ago
There's a difference between not being afraid of coming across as cringeworthy, and coming across as cringeworthy. The former doesn't ennoble the latter, and for someone who chose the role of not only originating ideas but seeking also to make them popular, the latter is a real problem.
- b3kart 6y ago
  A good point re him having two roles. Speaking your mind and expressing yourself freely are both paramount for a good thinker, while both are anathemas for anything that has to do with people’s opinion and politics. Maybe the two roles just don’t combine very well.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    It might be similar to the concept of code-shifting in linguistics. That depends on the ability to "read a room", and whatever Stallman's virtues, that has never seemed to me to be among his skills. To draw a comparison which will certainly infuriate everyone, Stallman might usefully be considered as a Wozniak desperately in need of a Jobs.

wizzwizz4 6y ago

He's like Cassandra, except a tad insufferable instead of cursed. Social skills are boring to work on, but he's a political activist; those should be a priority for him. He's usually right, but that doesn't mean he has to say things all the time! (Or, rather, he could probably pick more opportune moments, while retaining most of the frequency, and be listened to more.) Plus, the kinds of jokes you make with your friends are not necessarily the kinds of jokes you should be making on stage, during a talk about free software, in front of a wide audience of strangers. Though I hear he's got a lot better at this in the last half-decade, so perhaps this criticism is no longer warranted.

throwanem 6y ago
He could not have gotten much worse at it. Where have you heard he got better?
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  I haven't heard any “Richard Stallman ad-libbed one of his comedy skits badly and made members of the audience feel uncomfortable” stories since 2010 at the latest. I haven't heard he got better; I've just stopped hearing complaints. From this, I infer that he got better. One of the more hidden benefits of people being more willing to raise concerns like this is that people bad at noticing that they're doing stuff wrong get told it – and then, if they care, they get better. (And if they don't get better, keep shaming them; even if they care, just caring isn't enough.) I would rather people focused more on legitimate complaints like these, even though they aren't snazzy enough to make newspapers; making up stuff like “Richard Stallman supports child sexual abuse” helps nobody (except sensationalist newspapers, but they're not worth helping), whereas calling out the many small components of systematic injustices (e.g. many women feeling excluded from tech and hackerdom because they're women) helps many.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    Well, I can attest from personal experience that he was still stuffing his foot in his mouth that way as late as 2016; I didn't leave the talk, but I saw enough people do so that it was clearly not by happenstance. I've discussed the incidents of that talk before on Hacker News, at considerable length and in the face of the same anger borne of discomfited hero worship that seems to attend every criticism of Stallman's behavior. If you're interested in the details of that discussion, I'll ask you to find it in my comment history here, as I have occasions today both more urgent and more appealing than to attract yet another tiresome crowd of would-be shouters-down.