4 ms·

Trust me, to many non-Americans US remains the sole idea of a free country, whatever happened over there so far.

by barrenko 6y ago

Ma8ee 6y ago
I can think of several west-European countries that are better models (even though none are completely without faults).
- pageandrew 6y ago
  Economic prosperity does not necessarily equal freedom.
  - Ma8ee 6y ago
    I wasn’t foremost considering economic prosperity. I’d say you are more free in Western Europe too.
  - megous 6y ago
    https://prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_population_rate?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All https://prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_populatio...
- anonAndOn 6y ago
  Free to be born king/queen of the monarchy?[0] Free to be born titled nobility? [0, again] [0]England, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, others?
  - Ma8ee 6y ago
    Who has absolutely no significant power, or privileges. I take the Swedish Royal family over the Murdochs, Busches, Trumps or Clintons any day. I hope you aren’t so naive that you think that the US are free from privileges by birth.
    - anonAndOn 6y ago
      The thing about the US is, it usually takes a generation or two to make it to the top (Kennedy, Trump) but some ambitious upstarts can do it without generational wealth (Clinton, Obama). Then, the kids (mostly) and grandkids (definitely) fade into obscurity. When was the last time you saw an old-world royal lineage fade into obscurity? (France, 1789?) So some great-great-great(^n) descendent of some conquerer of yesteryear has a guaranteed place at the table in directing the modern European nation because why, exactly?
      - Ma8ee 6y ago
        They don't have any place at the table directing modern European nations. Their roles are purely ceremonial. They are like Christmas trees. They are tradition and some people think they are nice and cozy. Personally I feel that they are somewhat absurd anachronisms, but there are so much more important matters to be concerned about. In contrast, most European countries have higher social mobility than the US [0]. And considering the influence of money in US politics, that matters more. [0] http://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/ http://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/socia...
rorykoehler 6y ago
They’re just misinformed. Too much Hollywood propaganda not enough reality.
mathw 6y ago
There are countries freer in practice if not in stated principals. But there are definitely a load of countries which make America look great, and if that's not a sign of how much progress humanity has still to make I don't know what is.
somesortofsystm 6y ago
Many non-Americans are kept in the dark regarding America's involvement with modern day genocide - for example, its support of 20 million people being starved to death RIGHT NOW in Yemen. So, its not necessarily the case that just because everyone believes something, it is true...

Trust me, to many non-Americans US remains the sole idea of a free country, whatever happened over there so far.

Ma8ee 6y ago

I can think of several west-European countries that are better models (even though none are completely without faults).

pageandrew 6y ago
Economic prosperity does not necessarily equal freedom.
- Ma8ee 6y ago
  I wasn’t foremost considering economic prosperity. I’d say you are more free in Western Europe too.
- megous 6y ago
  https://prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_population_rate?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All https://prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_populatio...
anonAndOn 6y ago
Free to be born king/queen of the monarchy?[0] Free to be born titled nobility? [0, again] [0]England, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, others?
- Ma8ee 6y ago
  Who has absolutely no significant power, or privileges. I take the Swedish Royal family over the Murdochs, Busches, Trumps or Clintons any day. I hope you aren’t so naive that you think that the US are free from privileges by birth.
  - anonAndOn 6y ago
    The thing about the US is, it usually takes a generation or two to make it to the top (Kennedy, Trump) but some ambitious upstarts can do it without generational wealth (Clinton, Obama). Then, the kids (mostly) and grandkids (definitely) fade into obscurity. When was the last time you saw an old-world royal lineage fade into obscurity? (France, 1789?) So some great-great-great(^n) descendent of some conquerer of yesteryear has a guaranteed place at the table in directing the modern European nation because why, exactly?
    - Ma8ee 6y ago
      They don't have any place at the table directing modern European nations. Their roles are purely ceremonial. They are like Christmas trees. They are tradition and some people think they are nice and cozy. Personally I feel that they are somewhat absurd anachronisms, but there are so much more important matters to be concerned about. In contrast, most European countries have higher social mobility than the US [0]. And considering the influence of money in US politics, that matters more. [0] http://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/ http://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/socia...

rorykoehler 6y ago

They’re just misinformed. Too much Hollywood propaganda not enough reality.

mathw 6y ago

There are countries freer in practice if not in stated principals. But there are definitely a load of countries which make America look great, and if that's not a sign of how much progress humanity has still to make I don't know what is.

somesortofsystm 6y ago

Many non-Americans are kept in the dark regarding America's involvement with modern day genocide - for example, its support of 20 million people being starved to death RIGHT NOW in Yemen. So, its not necessarily the case that just because everyone believes something, it is true...