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Do you really think agitating for World War III was productive to start with? I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly where such extreme opinions come fo

by knzhou 6y ago

Do you really think agitating for World War III was productive to start with? I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly where such extreme opinions come form.

Reelin 6y ago
> agitating for World War III I read the original comment as being against it but wondering if it's an inevitable outcome. That's a very reasonable thing to want to discuss - many of the respondents here (including myself) appear not to share the view that it's inevitable. > I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly You mean the part where you literally made things up about what the other party thought?
- knzhou 6y ago
  What he directly said is that he thinks the prospect of there being a single non-white country not being crushingly poor "makes his hair stand on end", supplanted with some typical yellow peril fearmongering. I simply completed his thought.
  - Reelin 6y ago
    > he thinks the prospect of there being a single non-white country not being crushingly poor "makes his hair stand on end" As I previously pointed out, that is absolutely not what was said. Please stop making things up. Concern was expressed about the racism against those who are not Han which currently exists in China. The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. You appear (IMO) to be trying to distract from the fact that there is racism within China today. (As there is, of course, in many other places to varying extents - including but certainly not limited to the US.)
    - knzhou 6y ago
      > The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. Yes, and for the third time now: my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better than what 90% of the world (i.e. everybody non-white) faces today. The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go from being 100% white to 90%. He'd still be rich, and he'd still be comfortable, but he'd have to share first world status with others. And for some reason, that's unacceptable. Worst case, he might miss out on one business deal because it was struck in Mandarin, which is an absolutely tiny reflection of the loss of opportunity faced today by everybody who doesn't know English. And that in turn is tiny compared to the reality that 100 million people died of starvation in the 20th century. Famine, disease, and poverty are global moral catastrophes of unimaginable scale. And OP just thinks a country managing to stop them for its citizens gives him the creeps.
      - Reelin 6y ago
        > my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better So we shouldn't worry about something bad because worse has happened before? > The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go from being 100% white to 90%. You're making things up again. OP described living in a China-centric world, not one of equals. (Also your population statistics are _way_ off. 100% to 90%? The population of China is comparable to every other western country combined.) > Worst case, he might miss out on one business deal because it was struck in Mandarin Worst case, he might be actively discriminated against and passed over because in spite of investing considerable time in mastering Mandarin he's not Han.
        knzhou 6y ago
        > OP described living in a China-centric world, not one of equals. Yes, but there's no evidence to suggest this will be the case. The average yearly income in China is not even half what a minimum wage worker gets in the US! And yet OP thinks China will promptly take over the world. That's yellow peril at work.
        Reelin 6y ago
        > Yes, but there's no evidence to suggest this will be the case. Agreed, at least to the extent that I don't see a way to meaningfully predict that sort of outcome one way or the other. > And yet OP thinks China will promptly take over the world. That's yellow peril at work. On the contrary, that's just someone whose looked at recent economic trends and population statistics extrapolating from them intuitively.

by knzhou 6y ago

Do you really think agitating for World War III was productive to start with? I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly where such extreme opinions come form.

Reelin 6y ago

> agitating for World War III I read the original comment as being against it but wondering if it's an inevitable outcome. That's a very reasonable thing to want to discuss - many of the respondents here (including myself) appear not to share the view that it's inevitable. > I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly You mean the part where you literally made things up about what the other party thought?

knzhou 6y ago
What he directly said is that he thinks the prospect of there being a single non-white country not being crushingly poor "makes his hair stand on end", supplanted with some typical yellow peril fearmongering. I simply completed his thought.
- Reelin 6y ago
  > he thinks the prospect of there being a single non-white country not being crushingly poor "makes his hair stand on end" As I previously pointed out, that is absolutely not what was said. Please stop making things up. Concern was expressed about the racism against those who are not Han which currently exists in China. The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. You appear (IMO) to be trying to distract from the fact that there is racism within China today. (As there is, of course, in many other places to varying extents - including but certainly not limited to the US.)
  - knzhou 6y ago
    > The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. Yes, and for the third time now: my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better than what 90% of the world (i.e. everybody non-white) faces today. The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go from being 100% white to 90%. He'd still be rich, and he'd still be comfortable, but he'd have to share first world status with others. And for some reason, that's unacceptable. Worst case, he might miss out on one business deal because it was struck in Mandarin, which is an absolutely tiny reflection of the loss of opportunity faced today by everybody who doesn't know English. And that in turn is tiny compared to the reality that 100 million people died of starvation in the 20th century. Famine, disease, and poverty are global moral catastrophes of unimaginable scale. And OP just thinks a country managing to stop them for its citizens gives him the creeps.
    - Reelin 6y ago
      > my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better So we shouldn't worry about something bad because worse has happened before? > The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go from being 100% white to 90%. You're making things up again. OP described living in a China-centric world, not one of equals. (Also your population statistics are _way_ off. 100% to 90%? The population of China is comparable to every other western country combined.) > Worst case, he might miss out on one business deal because it was struck in Mandarin Worst case, he might be actively discriminated against and passed over because in spite of investing considerable time in mastering Mandarin he's not Han.
      - knzhou 6y ago
        > OP described living in a China-centric world, not one of equals. Yes, but there's no evidence to suggest this will be the case. The average yearly income in China is not even half what a minimum wage worker gets in the US! And yet OP thinks China will promptly take over the world. That's yellow peril at work.
        Reelin 6y ago
        > Yes, but there's no evidence to suggest this will be the case. Agreed, at least to the extent that I don't see a way to meaningfully predict that sort of outcome one way or the other. > And yet OP thinks China will promptly take over the world. That's yellow peril at work. On the contrary, that's just someone whose looked at recent economic trends and population statistics extrapolating from them intuitively.