3 ms·

> if you sink to the 90th percentile of privilege from the 99th, you'll become a "second class human" That isn't what the person you're responding to said at a

by Reelin 6y ago

> if you sink to the 90th percentile of privilege from the 99th, you'll become a "second class human" That isn't what the person you're responding to said at all. They were observing the discrimination against those who are not Han in China and extrapolating that it would apply to them as well in a China-centric world. They don't want to be discriminated against. That's all that's being said. (Well also they're saying that they appreciate freedom of speech and some other stuff that China seems to be diametrically opposed to, but you didn't respond to that so I guess it's not relevant to my comment.)

knzhou 6y ago
The "discrimination" they fear is no longer automatically being worshipped the second they step foot in a non-Western country, for being the richest guy in every room. In other words, what they actually fear is dropping from 99th percentile to 90th, and they think that possibility is worth starting World War III over. That attitude is typical, and precisely why people in China find the West so unconvincing.
- Reelin 6y ago
  > What they actually fear ... That's a baseless claim not related to the original comment. Why are you making things up and trying to derail productive discussion like this?
  - knzhou 6y ago
    Do you really think agitating for World War III was productive to start with? I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly where such extreme opinions come form.
    - Reelin 6y ago
      > agitating for World War III I read the original comment as being against it but wondering if it's an inevitable outcome. That's a very reasonable thing to want to discuss - many of the respondents here (including myself) appear not to share the view that it's inevitable. > I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly You mean the part where you literally made things up about what the other party thought?
      - knzhou 6y ago
        What he directly said is that he thinks the prospect of there being a single non-white country not being crushingly poor "makes his hair stand on end", supplanted with some typical yellow peril fearmongering. I simply completed his thought.
        Reelin 6y ago
        > he thinks the prospect of there being a single non-white country not being crushingly poor "makes his hair stand on end" As I previously pointed out, that is absolutely not what was said. Please stop making things up. Concern was expressed about the racism against those who are not Han which currently exists in China. The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. You appear (IMO) to be trying to distract from the fact that there is racism within China today. (As there is, of course, in many other places to varying extents - including but certainly not limited to the US.)
        knzhou 6y ago
        > The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. Yes, and for the third time now: my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better than what 90% of the world (i.e. everybody non-white) faces today. The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go from being 100% white to 90%. He'd still be rich, and he'd still be comfortable, but he'd have to share first world status with others. And for some reason, that's unacceptable. Worst case, he might miss out on one business deal because it was struck in Mandarin, which is an absolutely tiny reflection of the loss of opportunity faced today by everybody who doesn't know English. And that in turn is tiny compared to the reality that 100 million people died of starvation in the 20th century. Famine, disease, and poverty are global moral catastrophes of unimaginable scale. And OP just thinks a country managing to stop them for its citizens gives him the creeps.
        Reelin 6y ago
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    At this point you could create a drinking game based on each iteration of whataboutism or conflation of criticism of the CCP with racism.
    - Reelin 6y ago
      > conflation of criticism of the CCP with racism Which is particularly ironic since it appears to have been pointing out the racism that currently exists within China that started all this.
      - aww_dang 6y ago
        Irony abounds. The OP doesn't even mention a particular race in the comment. Yet the responses assume he is white with all of the trappings of privilege. Not impossible to characterize this assumption as racist on multiple levels.
        knzhou 6y ago
        It was not a hard thing to infer. There is a very particular kind of deep ignorance one needs to write a comment like OP's.
- throwaway1yf 6y ago
  > In other words, what they actually fear is dropping from 99th percentile to 90th, and they think that possibility is worth starting World War III over. Classic siege mentality. First assume OP is white and rich, then accuse the West hindering China from getting powerful while OP is focusing on human rights and equity. To be frank your argument is no better than common cliches from Wumao and Xiaofenhong.

by Reelin 6y ago

knzhou 6y ago

The "discrimination" they fear is no longer automatically being worshipped the second they step foot in a non-Western country, for being the richest guy in every room. In other words, what they actually fear is dropping from 99th percentile to 90th, and they think that possibility is worth starting World War III over. That attitude is typical, and precisely why people in China find the West so unconvincing.

Reelin 6y ago
> What they actually fear ... That's a baseless claim not related to the original comment. Why are you making things up and trying to derail productive discussion like this?
- knzhou 6y ago
  Do you really think agitating for World War III was productive to start with? I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly where such extreme opinions come form.
  - Reelin 6y ago
    > agitating for World War III I read the original comment as being against it but wondering if it's an inevitable outcome. That's a very reasonable thing to want to discuss - many of the respondents here (including myself) appear not to share the view that it's inevitable. > I pointed out rationally and straightforwardly You mean the part where you literally made things up about what the other party thought?
    - knzhou 6y ago
      What he directly said is that he thinks the prospect of there being a single non-white country not being crushingly poor "makes his hair stand on end", supplanted with some typical yellow peril fearmongering. I simply completed his thought.
      - Reelin 6y ago
        > he thinks the prospect of there being a single non-white country not being crushingly poor "makes his hair stand on end" As I previously pointed out, that is absolutely not what was said. Please stop making things up. Concern was expressed about the racism against those who are not Han which currently exists in China. The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. You appear (IMO) to be trying to distract from the fact that there is racism within China today. (As there is, of course, in many other places to varying extents - including but certainly not limited to the US.)
        knzhou 6y ago
        > The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. Yes, and for the third time now: my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better than what 90% of the world (i.e. everybody non-white) faces today. The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go from being 100% white to 90%. He'd still be rich, and he'd still be comfortable, but he'd have to share first world status with others. And for some reason, that's unacceptable. Worst case, he might miss out on one business deal because it was struck in Mandarin, which is an absolutely tiny reflection of the loss of opportunity faced today by everybody who doesn't know English. And that in turn is tiny compared to the reality that 100 million people died of starvation in the 20th century. Famine, disease, and poverty are global moral catastrophes of unimaginable scale. And OP just thinks a country managing to stop them for its citizens gives him the creeps.
        Reelin 6y ago
- aww_dang 6y ago
  At this point you could create a drinking game based on each iteration of whataboutism or conflation of criticism of the CCP with racism.
  - Reelin 6y ago
    > conflation of criticism of the CCP with racism Which is particularly ironic since it appears to have been pointing out the racism that currently exists within China that started all this.
    - aww_dang 6y ago
      Irony abounds. The OP doesn't even mention a particular race in the comment. Yet the responses assume he is white with all of the trappings of privilege. Not impossible to characterize this assumption as racist on multiple levels.
      - knzhou 6y ago
        It was not a hard thing to infer. There is a very particular kind of deep ignorance one needs to write a comment like OP's.
throwaway1yf 6y ago
> In other words, what they actually fear is dropping from 99th percentile to 90th, and they think that possibility is worth starting World War III over. Classic siege mentality. First assume OP is white and rich, then accuse the West hindering China from getting powerful while OP is focusing on human rights and equity. To be frank your argument is no better than common cliches from Wumao and Xiaofenhong.