4 ms·

This is chilling. Democracy in HK is forever gone.

by iampims 6y ago

ivalm 6y ago
Hopefully not forever, I do believe in change for the better, but for now CCP is an evil force of repression.
- actuator 6y ago
  I really don't see any change that can realistically take roots there. We have seen harsh sanctions fail to bring changes in a small poor country like NK where anyone looking South must be amazed at where they could have been. In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions.
  - pm90 6y ago
    The most practical outcome seems to be a gradual emigration of all the HK citizens to the UK/other countries. I can imagine citizens forming networks where they would warn each other of an upcoming arrest so their friends/family would scurry out of the country. I am hopeful that the sheer number of citizens in HK would perhaps lead to the city retaining some of its independence. We can't predict the future... who knows? What if Xi dies in the next 5 years and his successor isn't such a hardliner?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - actuator 6y ago
      I think that is easy for us as outsiders to say or hope. Leaving everything behind and moving into a foreign land with a different culture is hard and not a lot of places are very welcoming.
    - petre 6y ago
      It's too late for any of that now.
    - terenceng2010 6y ago
      Some professions like teacher are tough to find a similar role in other country. Different qualication, teaching language and teaching method they have to accomendate. It's a tough call to them. For IT profession though, it's more flexible. Personally, I have worked in a multi-nation develop team, and the experience is good.
  - throwaway77643 6y ago
    In the 1920s, I don’t think any person could have imagined the progress in Civil Rights that would occur in America. And yet it happened. From racist Jim Crow laws to Gay Rights, the progress made in 100 years is astonishing. Give the PRC 100 years and who knows how it might change.
    - ffggvv 6y ago
      yes because we have democracy, a constitution, and a working court system and free speech. china has none of that
    - peanutz454 6y ago
      I guess that's exactly what Thatcher thought would happen when she handed over Hong Kong - That China will make progress towards liberalism in politics and economics. Instead of China becoming like the rest of the world, I am wary of the world becoming like China. Progress has been made in the past, but cannot take that for-granted.
      - toyg 6y ago
        Thatcher did not “hand over” anything - the lease of HK would expire in 1997, so the UK government had no legal basis to stick around unless the Chinese allowed them to. Unsurprisingly, a “restored” China, now nuclear, said no. Thatcher failed to persuade them otherwise, despite years of negotiations, and was effectively forced to swallow the handover.
    - akiselev 6y ago
      > In the 1920s, I don’t think any person could have imagined the progress in Civil Rights that would occur in America. No one imagined it in the 1920s because they had already imagined it in the 1860s but got Jim Crow instead. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
      - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
        And yet, those who didn't imagine it in the 1920's still got civil rights in the 1960s. So in your view, what were we supposed to learn from history?
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions. Not suddenly, but every other major economy could probably afford a gradual distancing that ends up in more-or-less the same place.
    - actuator 6y ago
      US's bipartisan opposition might just be electioneering. I think Germany's actions speak far more than any other country's. I would have assumed someone like Merkel to be tough here based on her standing on social issues and how she handled the migrant crisis. She, at least in the West had an image of a liberal leader with the right attitude on challenges of our times like climate change. But even Germany seems to be tiptoeing around while they look to sign a trade deal.
scoot_718 6y ago
So too is any success that HK had. China really made the golden goose disappear under mysterious circumstances.

This is chilling. Democracy in HK is forever gone.

ivalm 6y ago

Hopefully not forever, I do believe in change for the better, but for now CCP is an evil force of repression.

actuator 6y ago
I really don't see any change that can realistically take roots there. We have seen harsh sanctions fail to bring changes in a small poor country like NK where anyone looking South must be amazed at where they could have been. In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions.
- pm90 6y ago
  The most practical outcome seems to be a gradual emigration of all the HK citizens to the UK/other countries. I can imagine citizens forming networks where they would warn each other of an upcoming arrest so their friends/family would scurry out of the country. I am hopeful that the sheer number of citizens in HK would perhaps lead to the city retaining some of its independence. We can't predict the future... who knows? What if Xi dies in the next 5 years and his successor isn't such a hardliner?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - actuator 6y ago
    I think that is easy for us as outsiders to say or hope. Leaving everything behind and moving into a foreign land with a different culture is hard and not a lot of places are very welcoming.
  - petre 6y ago
    It's too late for any of that now.
  - terenceng2010 6y ago
    Some professions like teacher are tough to find a similar role in other country. Different qualication, teaching language and teaching method they have to accomendate. It's a tough call to them. For IT profession though, it's more flexible. Personally, I have worked in a multi-nation develop team, and the experience is good.
- throwaway77643 6y ago
  In the 1920s, I don’t think any person could have imagined the progress in Civil Rights that would occur in America. And yet it happened. From racist Jim Crow laws to Gay Rights, the progress made in 100 years is astonishing. Give the PRC 100 years and who knows how it might change.
  - ffggvv 6y ago
    yes because we have democracy, a constitution, and a working court system and free speech. china has none of that
  - peanutz454 6y ago
    I guess that's exactly what Thatcher thought would happen when she handed over Hong Kong - That China will make progress towards liberalism in politics and economics. Instead of China becoming like the rest of the world, I am wary of the world becoming like China. Progress has been made in the past, but cannot take that for-granted.
    - toyg 6y ago
      Thatcher did not “hand over” anything - the lease of HK would expire in 1997, so the UK government had no legal basis to stick around unless the Chinese allowed them to. Unsurprisingly, a “restored” China, now nuclear, said no. Thatcher failed to persuade them otherwise, despite years of negotiations, and was effectively forced to swallow the handover.
  - akiselev 6y ago
    > In the 1920s, I don’t think any person could have imagined the progress in Civil Rights that would occur in America. No one imagined it in the 1920s because they had already imagined it in the 1860s but got Jim Crow instead. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      And yet, those who didn't imagine it in the 1920's still got civil rights in the 1960s. So in your view, what were we supposed to learn from history?
- ardy42 6y ago
  > In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions. Not suddenly, but every other major economy could probably afford a gradual distancing that ends up in more-or-less the same place.
  - actuator 6y ago
    US's bipartisan opposition might just be electioneering. I think Germany's actions speak far more than any other country's. I would have assumed someone like Merkel to be tough here based on her standing on social issues and how she handled the migrant crisis. She, at least in the West had an image of a liberal leader with the right attitude on challenges of our times like climate change. But even Germany seems to be tiptoeing around while they look to sign a trade deal.

scoot_718 6y ago

So too is any success that HK had. China really made the golden goose disappear under mysterious circumstances.