3 ms·

They have a Scala-heavy codebase that benefits from the of the optimizations C2 in OpenJDk doesn't do. In the general case, Oracle optimized free Graal to the p

They have a Scala-heavy codebase that benefits from the of the optimizations C2 in OpenJDk doesn't do. In the general case, Oracle optimized free Graal to the point it was just on-par with OpenJDK and made the additional optimizations commercial only

chrisseaton 6y ago
So you agree it’s on-par with OpenJDK, and admit sometimes a lot better in practice, and it’s free... and you’re still not happy simply because there exists something even better which isn’t free?
- throwaway189262 6y ago
  It's an official implementation, the beginnings of a segment of the ecosystem. A different Java compiler was what Google started with on Android... Look at the mess they created now. If code runs differently on official platforms Commercial Graal can build a moat where code X doesn't work well on OpenJDK. Eventually you end up with code that works on OpenJDK and Graal EE, and a subset that only works well on Graal EE. This is why, in my mind, compilers from official sources should always be free. Since Graal EE performs better there's nothing stopping Oracle from pulling a Chrome. Take all the market share then a few years later use your market power to start fucking with the ecosystem
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    It implements the same Java specification as every other Java implementation. It's a conforming implementation. How can an extra implementation of exactly the same standard possibly be a bad thing? This is what we want isn't it? Multiple implementations innovating to improve while keeping to the same spec? So if you don't want to pay for Graal EE it doesn't matter because your code still runs everywhere, and because CE is as good as OpenJDK you're no worse off in any case. Or are you saying they're going to break the spec? Well that's just a baseless speculation so not useful to talk about in my opinion. We're really lucky that Oracle are investing so much money on pushing the limit of Java performance, and that they make the vast majority of it open source. Few companies have the money and institutional knowledge to do this.

chrisseaton 6y ago

So you agree it’s on-par with OpenJDK, and admit sometimes a lot better in practice, and it’s free... and you’re still not happy simply because there exists something even better which isn’t free?

throwaway189262 6y ago
It's an official implementation, the beginnings of a segment of the ecosystem. A different Java compiler was what Google started with on Android... Look at the mess they created now. If code runs differently on official platforms Commercial Graal can build a moat where code X doesn't work well on OpenJDK. Eventually you end up with code that works on OpenJDK and Graal EE, and a subset that only works well on Graal EE. This is why, in my mind, compilers from official sources should always be free. Since Graal EE performs better there's nothing stopping Oracle from pulling a Chrome. Take all the market share then a few years later use your market power to start fucking with the ecosystem
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  It implements the same Java specification as every other Java implementation. It's a conforming implementation. How can an extra implementation of exactly the same standard possibly be a bad thing? This is what we want isn't it? Multiple implementations innovating to improve while keeping to the same spec? So if you don't want to pay for Graal EE it doesn't matter because your code still runs everywhere, and because CE is as good as OpenJDK you're no worse off in any case. Or are you saying they're going to break the spec? Well that's just a baseless speculation so not useful to talk about in my opinion. We're really lucky that Oracle are investing so much money on pushing the limit of Java performance, and that they make the vast majority of it open source. Few companies have the money and institutional knowledge to do this.