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Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

151 points by blisseyGo 6y ago

roenxi 6y ago
From Wikpedia [0]: Lai was born in Guangdong, China in December 1948. At the age of 12, he entered Hong Kong as a stowaway on a boat. Upon his arrival, Lai began work as a child-laborer in a garment factory for a wage of $8 per month. ... Net worth US$1.2 billion (2008) What an incredible character. Arresting a man like that has to be one of the most straightforward own-goals that a nation can manage. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Lai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Lai
- Fishysoup 6y ago
  China is determined to run itself to the ground
dgellow 6y ago
Duplicate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24105311 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24105311
WaxProlix 6y ago
I understand what they're getting at, I think, but "pro-democracy tycoon" has to be one of the funniest oxymorons I've seen in serious print (at least on its face).
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  Why is it an oxymoron?
  - Shared404 6y ago
    In the US at least, many (most?) tycoons are involved with lobbying of the sort that destroys the function of democracy, even though they leave the form.
    - throwaway-semi 6y ago
      Can you expand more how it destroys the definition of democracy: > Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία, dēmokratiā, from dēmos 'people' and kratos 'rule') is a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation. Who people are and how authority is shared among them are core issues for democratic theory, development and constitution. Some cornerstones of these issues are freedom of assembly and speech, inclusiveness and equality, membership, consent, voting, right to life and minority rights. Democracy is more than just political lobbying.
      - Shared404 6y ago
        Excessive lobbying can lead to where although people are able to vote for representatives, said representatives are likely to do what is best for them only -- taking money from lobbyists to do things that may or may not be unethical. This leads to a situation where although you voted, you don't actually get a say in government. Of course, this only applies to representative democracy. Edit: see also kemonocode's response to my above comment. That's what I was trying (badly) to say.
        freeopinion 6y ago
        Some among the US founding fathers argued that such was inevitable. The only plausible solution, they posited, was to encourage even more lobbying. The only thing that could protect the democracy from special interests was, well, special interests. Competing special interests. The only hope was to set them against each other.
        rapnie 6y ago
        Radical transparency enforced by rules would also come a long way. The electorate would be outraged if they knew about the extent of lobbying to their representatives. It would allow them to put public pressure where it is due.
        6y ago
bmmayer1 6y ago
This is clearly a signaling move for the wealthiest and most influential business leaders in Hong Kong who might be tempted to subvert Beijing's authority. If they can get the biggest and wealthiest pro-democracy tycoon, they can get anyone. This is like when Putin arrested Mikhail Khodorkovsky in 2003. The Russian oligarchs fell into line shortly thereafter.
dav43 6y ago
It’s all over for Hong Kong as it has been in the past - a bridge between east and west - a NYC of Asia. I lived there for 4 years just after the GFC as the transition was slowly continuing to stronger Chinese rule. My view is nothing new. My gut feeling take away was that China will want to run HK into the ground - as a middle finger to the west - and have the only strong pillars on the region to be Shanghai and Beijing.
- yomly 6y ago
  Don't sleep on Shenzhen. I think China will look to starve HK by moving as much of the HK financial sector to the bay area. I can't speak for what will happen wrt the international links that make HK what it is, but if China pulls it off they will have hardware, software and finance all in one place. Imagine if NYC had a baby with SV...
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    > Imagine if NYC had a baby with SV... shudders
smnrchrds 6y ago
NPR Planet Money had an episode about Hong Kong and Jimmy Lai a year ago. It was a good listen, I learned a lot. https://www.npr.org/2019/07/19/743480237/episode-928-hong-kong https://www.npr.org/2019/07/19/743480237/episode-928-hong-ko...
- peanutz454 6y ago
  I would second this, really interesting episode. He was not afraid of getting arrested he said, I still cannot completely understand a man like him, I wish more people had those guts.

151 points by blisseyGo 6y ago

From Wikpedia [0]: Lai was born in Guangdong, China in December 1948. At the age of 12, he entered Hong Kong as a stowaway on a boat. Upon his arrival, Lai began work as a child-laborer in a garment factory for a wage of $8 per month. ... Net worth US$1.2 billion (2008) What an incredible character. Arresting a man like that has to be one of the most straightforward own-goals that a nation can manage. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Lai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Lai

Fishysoup 6y ago
China is determined to run itself to the ground

dgellow 6y ago

Duplicate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24105311 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24105311

WaxProlix 6y ago

I understand what they're getting at, I think, but "pro-democracy tycoon" has to be one of the funniest oxymorons I've seen in serious print (at least on its face).

philliphaydon 6y ago
Why is it an oxymoron?
- Shared404 6y ago
  In the US at least, many (most?) tycoons are involved with lobbying of the sort that destroys the function of democracy, even though they leave the form.
  - throwaway-semi 6y ago
    Can you expand more how it destroys the definition of democracy: > Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία, dēmokratiā, from dēmos 'people' and kratos 'rule') is a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation. Who people are and how authority is shared among them are core issues for democratic theory, development and constitution. Some cornerstones of these issues are freedom of assembly and speech, inclusiveness and equality, membership, consent, voting, right to life and minority rights. Democracy is more than just political lobbying.
    - Shared404 6y ago
      Excessive lobbying can lead to where although people are able to vote for representatives, said representatives are likely to do what is best for them only -- taking money from lobbyists to do things that may or may not be unethical. This leads to a situation where although you voted, you don't actually get a say in government. Of course, this only applies to representative democracy. Edit: see also kemonocode's response to my above comment. That's what I was trying (badly) to say.
      - freeopinion 6y ago
        Some among the US founding fathers argued that such was inevitable. The only plausible solution, they posited, was to encourage even more lobbying. The only thing that could protect the democracy from special interests was, well, special interests. Competing special interests. The only hope was to set them against each other.
        rapnie 6y ago
        Radical transparency enforced by rules would also come a long way. The electorate would be outraged if they knew about the extent of lobbying to their representatives. It would allow them to put public pressure where it is due.
        6y ago

bmmayer1 6y ago

This is clearly a signaling move for the wealthiest and most influential business leaders in Hong Kong who might be tempted to subvert Beijing's authority. If they can get the biggest and wealthiest pro-democracy tycoon, they can get anyone. This is like when Putin arrested Mikhail Khodorkovsky in 2003. The Russian oligarchs fell into line shortly thereafter.

dav43 6y ago

It’s all over for Hong Kong as it has been in the past - a bridge between east and west - a NYC of Asia. I lived there for 4 years just after the GFC as the transition was slowly continuing to stronger Chinese rule. My view is nothing new. My gut feeling take away was that China will want to run HK into the ground - as a middle finger to the west - and have the only strong pillars on the region to be Shanghai and Beijing.

yomly 6y ago
Don't sleep on Shenzhen. I think China will look to starve HK by moving as much of the HK financial sector to the bay area. I can't speak for what will happen wrt the international links that make HK what it is, but if China pulls it off they will have hardware, software and finance all in one place. Imagine if NYC had a baby with SV...
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  > Imagine if NYC had a baby with SV... shudders

smnrchrds 6y ago

NPR Planet Money had an episode about Hong Kong and Jimmy Lai a year ago. It was a good listen, I learned a lot. https://www.npr.org/2019/07/19/743480237/episode-928-hong-kong https://www.npr.org/2019/07/19/743480237/episode-928-hong-ko...

peanutz454 6y ago
I would second this, really interesting episode. He was not afraid of getting arrested he said, I still cannot completely understand a man like him, I wish more people had those guts.