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What are your thoughts on this: “ David Shor, an analyst at Democratic polling firm Civis Analytics, tweeted a study that concluded, "race riots reduced Democra

by influx 6y ago

What are your thoughts on this: “ David Shor, an analyst at Democratic polling firm Civis Analytics, tweeted a study that concluded, "race riots reduced Democratic vote share." That study was probably accurate. Obviously, rioting alienates voters. But the mob attacked Shor. "Come get your boy," one tweeted. His bosses did. Even though Shor issued a groveling apology, he was fired.”

eesmith 6y ago
FWIW, here are my thoughts. 1) What is a "race riot"? Definitions are important. Should we call it the Tulsa Massacre or the Tulsa Race Riot? And does the choice of term reflect your view? 2) Are there any race riots going on now? Which events are race riots and which are not? My reading of the history of the topic is that "race riot" was the term used by whites to describe resistance by minorities to white oppression, as in the Tulsa example above. 3) Why did Shor decide to characterize the linked-to paper http://www.omarwasow.com/Protests_on_Voting.pdf http://www.omarwasow.com/Protests_on_Voting.pdf as providing information on "race riot"s? The referenced paper uses the term "race riot" twice, both when referencing the works of other people. Instead, it uses the description "black-led protests" and proposes that "nonviolent activism, particularly when met with state or vigilante repression, drove media coverage, framing, Congressional speech and public opinion on civil rights." which it juxtaposes with "Protester-initiated violence". If we accept the narrative that the violence of many of the current protests are the results of state-initiated repression, then do those protests fall in the first category or the second? Or neither, in which case the study isn't relevant. Note that if we use the definition of "Protester-initiated violence" then if we call it the Tulsa Race Riot then it's clearly a race riot initiated by white protestors. (One of many, I'll add.) Is the implication that all black-lead protests with protester-initiated violence should be characterized as a "race riot"? 4) You write "rioting alienates voters". Is that really true? I assume that white-lead protests with protester-initiated violence against non-whites are also race riots. Do you agree? Did the Tulsa Massacre/"Race Riot" alienate voters against the protesting whites? Did the Zoot Suit Riots alienate voters against Navy sailors? I .. don't think they did. In fact, I think it was quite the opposite. So I don't think your "obviously" is all that correct a summary. 5) How is the term "killing free speech" at all relevant? Over and over I see "cancel culture" applied to famous or influential people who have a loss of prestige based on what they wrote or said, but who are NOT CANCELED in any meaningful sense. Eg, at https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/david-shor-cancel-culture-2020-election-theory-polls.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/david-shor-cancel-cu... I read that "Shor is still consulting in Democratic politics, but he is no longer working for a firm that restricts his freedom to publicly opine." ECA_stax pointed out the hyperbole in using the term "kill". How do you get from "still consulting in Democratic politics" to "killed", or from "must conform to an employer's policies" to "killing free speech"?

by influx 6y ago

eesmith 6y ago

FWIW, here are my thoughts. 1) What is a "race riot"? Definitions are important. Should we call it the Tulsa Massacre or the Tulsa Race Riot? And does the choice of term reflect your view? 2) Are there any race riots going on now? Which events are race riots and which are not? My reading of the history of the topic is that "race riot" was the term used by whites to describe resistance by minorities to white oppression, as in the Tulsa example above. 3) Why did Shor decide to characterize the linked-to paper http://www.omarwasow.com/Protests_on_Voting.pdf http://www.omarwasow.com/Protests_on_Voting.pdf as providing information on "race riot"s? The referenced paper uses the term "race riot" twice, both when referencing the works of other people. Instead, it uses the description "black-led protests" and proposes that "nonviolent activism, particularly when met with state or vigilante repression, drove media coverage, framing, Congressional speech and public opinion on civil rights." which it juxtaposes with "Protester-initiated violence". If we accept the narrative that the violence of many of the current protests are the results of state-initiated repression, then do those protests fall in the first category or the second? Or neither, in which case the study isn't relevant. Note that if we use the definition of "Protester-initiated violence" then if we call it the Tulsa Race Riot then it's clearly a race riot initiated by white protestors. (One of many, I'll add.) Is the implication that all black-lead protests with protester-initiated violence should be characterized as a "race riot"? 4) You write "rioting alienates voters". Is that really true? I assume that white-lead protests with protester-initiated violence against non-whites are also race riots. Do you agree? Did the Tulsa Massacre/"Race Riot" alienate voters against the protesting whites? Did the Zoot Suit Riots alienate voters against Navy sailors? I .. don't think they did. In fact, I think it was quite the opposite. So I don't think your "obviously" is all that correct a summary. 5) How is the term "killing free speech" at all relevant? Over and over I see "cancel culture" applied to famous or influential people who have a loss of prestige based on what they wrote or said, but who are NOT CANCELED in any meaningful sense. Eg, at https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/david-shor-cancel-culture-2020-election-theory-polls.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/david-shor-cancel-cu... I read that "Shor is still consulting in Democratic politics, but he is no longer working for a firm that restricts his freedom to publicly opine." ECA_stax pointed out the hyperbole in using the term "kill". How do you get from "still consulting in Democratic politics" to "killed", or from "must conform to an employer's policies" to "killing free speech"?