5 ms·

Oriented electric fields as future smart reagents in chemistry [pdf]

39 points by apsec112 6y ago

seiferteric 6y ago
Wow this looks cool. I didn't know there was a name for this but have had some crazy idea in my head for a few years now along similar lines. My thinking is, all chemical interactions are electromagnetic in nature right? If you could control electromagnetic fields at a small enough scale and at high enough frequencies (i.e. at rates important in chemistry like infrared-x ray) could you not mediate chemical reactions "synthetically"? I imagine something like a "fabric" of electromagnetic transducers (antenna) and transistors along a surface that could both transmit and sense particle states. Obviously, this would require insane improvements in technology, like switching speeds and computation, but is it theoretically possible? Perhaps it could use a computing model similar to a cellular automata to distribute across the "fabric" in order to react fast enough to mediate the chemical reactions. Perhaps it would need to be superconductive in order to have the necessary sensitivity/efficiency? Ultimately could it be used to do things like act as a "perfect" catalyst for electrolysis for example...? or even build things up from the atomic level a la a replicator :) ?
- pharke 6y ago
  I wonder if you could do this at a fairly macro scale with lots of reactant. I'm thinking along the lines of an electromagnetic enzyme. The goal wouldn't be to build things up from the atomic level or pick and place atoms but to speed up naturally occurring reactions the way enzymes do. As long as you could line the fields up properly or switch them fast enough you would be able to nudge the reactions along. You'd need some way to pump the product out to the next step but you might be able to select for it with a field as well. Edit: after reading further into the paper I see that this is close to what they have in mind
mensetmanusman 6y ago
Works in catalysis with magnets: https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/magnets-that-double-efficiency-of-water-splitting-could-help-usher-in-a-hydrogen-economy/3010618.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/magnets-that-double-effi...
squidproquo 6y ago
Star Trek replicator technology v0.0.0.0.0.1
ncmncm 6y ago
I have long thought that volume fluid processing -- like filtering out some particulates but not others -- should involve steps with a mist and an electric field. I sat next to a pro on a plane once, and he said he had never heard of anyone trying it.
dr_dshiv 6y ago
One crude example is the use of radio frequencies to catalyze hydrolysis in salt water, without electrodes [1] . If you've never seen the "burning water“ YouTube videos, you won't believe it. Actually, especially if you've seen the videos, you won't believe it. John Kanzius, the Erie, PA inventor is sometimes accused of making it sound like more energy is extracted from the water than put in. He never says or implies this (it's a net loss, obviously, like regular hydrolysis) , though the local news station describes the possibilty of fueling your car with salt water <smack> [2]. Still, amazing to watch salt water burn. [1] Roy, R., Rao, M. L., & Kanzius, J. (2008). Observations of polarised RF radiation catalysis of dissociation of H2O-NaCl solutions. Materials Research Innovations, 12(1), 3. [2] https://youtu.be/aGg0ATfoBgo https://youtu.be/aGg0ATfoBgo

39 points by apsec112 6y ago

Wow this looks cool. I didn't know there was a name for this but have had some crazy idea in my head for a few years now along similar lines. My thinking is, all chemical interactions are electromagnetic in nature right? If you could control electromagnetic fields at a small enough scale and at high enough frequencies (i.e. at rates important in chemistry like infrared-x ray) could you not mediate chemical reactions "synthetically"? I imagine something like a "fabric" of electromagnetic transducers (antenna) and transistors along a surface that could both transmit and sense particle states. Obviously, this would require insane improvements in technology, like switching speeds and computation, but is it theoretically possible? Perhaps it could use a computing model similar to a cellular automata to distribute across the "fabric" in order to react fast enough to mediate the chemical reactions. Perhaps it would need to be superconductive in order to have the necessary sensitivity/efficiency? Ultimately could it be used to do things like act as a "perfect" catalyst for electrolysis for example...? or even build things up from the atomic level a la a replicator :) ?

pharke 6y ago
I wonder if you could do this at a fairly macro scale with lots of reactant. I'm thinking along the lines of an electromagnetic enzyme. The goal wouldn't be to build things up from the atomic level or pick and place atoms but to speed up naturally occurring reactions the way enzymes do. As long as you could line the fields up properly or switch them fast enough you would be able to nudge the reactions along. You'd need some way to pump the product out to the next step but you might be able to select for it with a field as well. Edit: after reading further into the paper I see that this is close to what they have in mind

mensetmanusman 6y ago

Works in catalysis with magnets: https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/magnets-that-double-efficiency-of-water-splitting-could-help-usher-in-a-hydrogen-economy/3010618.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/magnets-that-double-effi...

squidproquo 6y ago

Star Trek replicator technology v0.0.0.0.0.1

ncmncm 6y ago

I have long thought that volume fluid processing -- like filtering out some particulates but not others -- should involve steps with a mist and an electric field. I sat next to a pro on a plane once, and he said he had never heard of anyone trying it.

dr_dshiv 6y ago

One crude example is the use of radio frequencies to catalyze hydrolysis in salt water, without electrodes [1] . If you've never seen the "burning water“ YouTube videos, you won't believe it. Actually, especially if you've seen the videos, you won't believe it. John Kanzius, the Erie, PA inventor is sometimes accused of making it sound like more energy is extracted from the water than put in. He never says or implies this (it's a net loss, obviously, like regular hydrolysis) , though the local news station describes the possibilty of fueling your car with salt water <smack> [2]. Still, amazing to watch salt water burn. [1] Roy, R., Rao, M. L., & Kanzius, J. (2008). Observations of polarised RF radiation catalysis of dissociation of H2O-NaCl solutions. Materials Research Innovations, 12(1), 3. [2] https://youtu.be/aGg0ATfoBgo https://youtu.be/aGg0ATfoBgo