3 ms·

> This isn't how things should be What is this based on?

by maps7 6y ago

xapata 6y ago
That was clearly a subjective ethical statement. The speaker would have used "ought" if they wanted to appear objective.
- ryanklee 6y ago
  It's not common in English for that distinction to accomplish the work that you're asserting it does. "Should" and "ought" are synonymous. "Ought" has a more formal tone, but outside technical settings in which the distinction might really matter, no one should be drawing any conclusions from the choice.
  - AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
    Perhaps you aren't aware of Hume's "Is-Ought Problem" [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem
    - rosstex 6y ago
      I ought to think twice before starting a comment thread on HN now
    - JadeNB 6y ago
      That seems to be distinguishing, as the name suggests, between 'is' and 'ought', not between 'should' and 'ought'. Indeed, both the article itself, and its quotes from Hume, seem to use 'should' as nearly synonymous with 'ought'. (Even if I've got it wrong, ryanklee claimed that "[i]t's not common" to make that distinction, and pointing to the technical work of philosophers doesn't undermine the claim about common useage.)
      - xapata 6y ago
        Back in high school, Lincoln-Douglas competitive debate taught that "should" was for practical justifications and "ought" was for ethical justifications. Again, to your point, most people don't bother to be so careful with their choices of words.
  - xapata 6y ago
    > no one should be drawing any conclusions from the choice But they ought to. ;-)
    - eindiran 6y ago
      https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/should https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/should 1. (auxiliary) Be obliged to; have an obligation to; indicates that the subject of the sentence has some obligation to execute the sentence predicate or that the speaker has some strong advice but has no authority to enforce it. 2. (auxiliary) ought to; speaker's opinion, or advice that an action is correct, beneficial, or desirable.
      - xapata 6y ago
        Yes, yes, the language has synonyms. However, the beauty of synonyms is being able to create slight distinctions between them. A native speaker often learns connotations that don't appear in short definitions of some words. Punto e basta.

> This isn't how things should be What is this based on?

by maps7 6y ago

> This isn't how things should be What is this based on?

That was clearly a subjective ethical statement. The speaker would have used "ought" if they wanted to appear objective.

ryanklee 6y ago
It's not common in English for that distinction to accomplish the work that you're asserting it does. "Should" and "ought" are synonymous. "Ought" has a more formal tone, but outside technical settings in which the distinction might really matter, no one should be drawing any conclusions from the choice.
- AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
  Perhaps you aren't aware of Hume's "Is-Ought Problem" [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem
  - rosstex 6y ago
    I ought to think twice before starting a comment thread on HN now
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    That seems to be distinguishing, as the name suggests, between 'is' and 'ought', not between 'should' and 'ought'. Indeed, both the article itself, and its quotes from Hume, seem to use 'should' as nearly synonymous with 'ought'. (Even if I've got it wrong, ryanklee claimed that "[i]t's not common" to make that distinction, and pointing to the technical work of philosophers doesn't undermine the claim about common useage.)
    - xapata 6y ago
      Back in high school, Lincoln-Douglas competitive debate taught that "should" was for practical justifications and "ought" was for ethical justifications. Again, to your point, most people don't bother to be so careful with their choices of words.
- xapata 6y ago
  > no one should be drawing any conclusions from the choice But they ought to. ;-)
  - eindiran 6y ago
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/should https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/should 1. (auxiliary) Be obliged to; have an obligation to; indicates that the subject of the sentence has some obligation to execute the sentence predicate or that the speaker has some strong advice but has no authority to enforce it. 2. (auxiliary) ought to; speaker's opinion, or advice that an action is correct, beneficial, or desirable.
    - xapata 6y ago
      Yes, yes, the language has synonyms. However, the beauty of synonyms is being able to create slight distinctions between them. A native speaker often learns connotations that don't appear in short definitions of some words. Punto e basta.