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Yes, of course but that's the point. That people are unable follow correct mask usage and get sloppy, especially over time.

by Kiro 6y ago

dragontamer 6y ago
But why do you think that? The more you practice something, the better you get at it. Assuming people to be 100% noobs at masks for months is a bit pessimistic. It's easier today to use hand sanitizer with masks than months ago. In my experience anyway.
- Kiro 6y ago
  Because it's what the state epidemiologists of the Nordic countries are saying, and why they recommend against mask usage. I'm all for masks btw. All I said was that inefficient masks could be counterproductive due to that reason but apparently even that innocent suggestion is heresy here.
  - pmachinery 6y ago
    It's not heresy, it's just a banality that has been stated countless times before. Not washing your hands properly can be counterproductive. Not being socially distant enough can be counterproductive. If you're not even arguing against masks, what is your point?
    - Kiro 6y ago
      Read the whole thread. It was a reply to: > So...people need to just slap something over their two air exchanging orifices on their faces before leaving the house and contribute to the our greater health. My point is that if the mask is inefficient it could be counterproductive due to fidgeting. See sibling comment about fleece masks that hopefully makes a better case since you can't agree the slightest that anyone would ever fidget with their mask. Regardless, I don't agree that it's a banality considering the ECDC lists it as an important caveat when using face masks: > There is a risk that improper removal of the face mask, handling of a contaminated face mask or an increased tendency to touch the face while wearing a face mask by healthy persons might actually increase the risk of transmission. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-use-face-masks-community.pdf https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COV...
      - pmachinery 6y ago
        > Read the whole thread. Obviously I read the thread, otherwise I wouldn't have commented on what you wrote in it. > Regardless, I don't agree that it's a banality considering the ECDC lists it as an important caveat when using face masks It's a banality when in absolutely every thread on this subject at least one person states the totally obvious that doing something incorrectly could might potentially possibly may be worse than not doing it at all.
        Kiro 6y ago
        Not washing your hands properly or not being socially distant enough are not counterproductive, they are just unproductive. No-one thinks that less social distance gives you more protection, while wearing an inefficient mask may have the opposite of the desired effect. You're mixing up the "too much anything is bad for you" trope with a serious caveat that has caused whole countries to recommend against face masks.
        pmachinery 6y ago
        I'm not mixing anything up, and you aren't fooling anyone any more. You are using that "serious caveat" because it's the go to trope for anti-maskers seeking to pollute absolutely every fucking discussion on this subject. I asked you to explain why you're posting anti-masker arguments if you are, as you claim, "all for masks" and all you've done is repeat the same anti-mask bullshit. Next time I won't bother assuming possible good faith on the part of anyone spouting textbook anti-masker noise.
        Kiro 6y ago
        You know, it's possible to be for masks and still acknowledge it's not the perfect solution. You are the one pushing me into a corner of "either you're with us or against us". The ECDC guidelines recommend face coverings but still recognise the caveats, but in your eyes they are heretics and anti-maskers for even mentioning it. You appear like a religious fanatic. Very sad to see and it completely kills any serious discussion about the topic.
- prox 6y ago
  Have you seen people use masks in interviews and so on? They constantly fidget with it. At least 50%. Most people are not medically skilled or trained. People fidget unconsciously and uncontrolled.
- DanBC 6y ago
  > Assuming people to be 100% noobs at masks for months is a bit pessimistic. Or maybe it's realistic. Go read some hospital audits of mask wearing or handwashing. Have a look at any of the research showing that even staff who are trained to use it struggle to do it properly.

Yes, of course but that's the point. That people are unable follow correct mask usage and get sloppy, especially over time.

by Kiro 6y ago

Yes, of course but that's the point. That people are unable follow correct mask usage and get sloppy, especially over time.

dragontamer 6y ago

But why do you think that? The more you practice something, the better you get at it. Assuming people to be 100% noobs at masks for months is a bit pessimistic. It's easier today to use hand sanitizer with masks than months ago. In my experience anyway.

Kiro 6y ago
Because it's what the state epidemiologists of the Nordic countries are saying, and why they recommend against mask usage. I'm all for masks btw. All I said was that inefficient masks could be counterproductive due to that reason but apparently even that innocent suggestion is heresy here.
- pmachinery 6y ago
  It's not heresy, it's just a banality that has been stated countless times before. Not washing your hands properly can be counterproductive. Not being socially distant enough can be counterproductive. If you're not even arguing against masks, what is your point?
  - Kiro 6y ago
    Read the whole thread. It was a reply to: > So...people need to just slap something over their two air exchanging orifices on their faces before leaving the house and contribute to the our greater health. My point is that if the mask is inefficient it could be counterproductive due to fidgeting. See sibling comment about fleece masks that hopefully makes a better case since you can't agree the slightest that anyone would ever fidget with their mask. Regardless, I don't agree that it's a banality considering the ECDC lists it as an important caveat when using face masks: > There is a risk that improper removal of the face mask, handling of a contaminated face mask or an increased tendency to touch the face while wearing a face mask by healthy persons might actually increase the risk of transmission. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-use-face-masks-community.pdf https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COV...
    - pmachinery 6y ago
      > Read the whole thread. Obviously I read the thread, otherwise I wouldn't have commented on what you wrote in it. > Regardless, I don't agree that it's a banality considering the ECDC lists it as an important caveat when using face masks It's a banality when in absolutely every thread on this subject at least one person states the totally obvious that doing something incorrectly could might potentially possibly may be worse than not doing it at all.
      - Kiro 6y ago
        Not washing your hands properly or not being socially distant enough are not counterproductive, they are just unproductive. No-one thinks that less social distance gives you more protection, while wearing an inefficient mask may have the opposite of the desired effect. You're mixing up the "too much anything is bad for you" trope with a serious caveat that has caused whole countries to recommend against face masks.
        pmachinery 6y ago
        I'm not mixing anything up, and you aren't fooling anyone any more. You are using that "serious caveat" because it's the go to trope for anti-maskers seeking to pollute absolutely every fucking discussion on this subject. I asked you to explain why you're posting anti-masker arguments if you are, as you claim, "all for masks" and all you've done is repeat the same anti-mask bullshit. Next time I won't bother assuming possible good faith on the part of anyone spouting textbook anti-masker noise.
        Kiro 6y ago
        You know, it's possible to be for masks and still acknowledge it's not the perfect solution. You are the one pushing me into a corner of "either you're with us or against us". The ECDC guidelines recommend face coverings but still recognise the caveats, but in your eyes they are heretics and anti-maskers for even mentioning it. You appear like a religious fanatic. Very sad to see and it completely kills any serious discussion about the topic.
prox 6y ago
Have you seen people use masks in interviews and so on? They constantly fidget with it. At least 50%. Most people are not medically skilled or trained. People fidget unconsciously and uncontrolled.
DanBC 6y ago
> Assuming people to be 100% noobs at masks for months is a bit pessimistic. Or maybe it's realistic. Go read some hospital audits of mask wearing or handwashing. Have a look at any of the research showing that even staff who are trained to use it struggle to do it properly.