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This. While I can appreciate that Apple is taking a huge risk in creating their own chips, I cannot believe that the performance of the chips will be on par wit

by wu_187 6y ago

This. While I can appreciate that Apple is taking a huge risk in creating their own chips, I cannot believe that the performance of the chips will be on par with current x86_64 chipsets based on Apple's past. In all honestly, the vast majority of Apple's clientele for computers are businesses, who basically just use them for basic web browsing/office work, which isn't a high bar to meet the needs for.

ulfw 6y ago
"the vast majority of Apple's clientele for computers are businesses" I'm sorry? What?!
saagarjha 6y ago
I suggest you pick up an iPad and try doing something demanding on it.
DiabloD3 6y ago
I don't know of a single employee of a serious actual business that has been issued an Apple anything. Not a laptop, desktop, or phone. I don't know of a single person that, when given the choice of what to use for work, has chosen Apple unless they already were entrenched in the Apple ecosystem. The vast majority of Apple's customers are Apple fans, people who merely wish to think different, nothing more, nothing less. Edit: Don't downvote just to disagree. Comment and state your reasoning on why you think I'm wrong. If you work for a company that only issues Apple devices, please speak up with your experience on how this went, and, if possible, why the company didn't go with Windows or Linux computers instead. For the comments that try to bring up software development roles: most software developers I know either use Windows or use Linux on the desktop, and loath OSX worse than I do. Very few prefer OSX. The few people I know that prefer OSX (and will die on that hill) are frontend developers.
- Razengan 6y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=Mac+at+NASA&prmd=inmv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&biw=375&bih=635&dpr=3 https://www.google.com/search?q=Mac+at+NASA&prmd=inmv&source...
  - Razengan 6y ago
    Of course DiabloD3 chose to ignore this.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Do you consider software engineering to be a "serious actual business", or are you going to gatekeep it to match whatever your notion of one is until they can only use software that is Windows-only?
- ivanbakel 6y ago
  If you're throwing around anecdotes, then my most recent workplaces allocated Macbooks, and Apple peripherals, to every non-technical person in the office (~2/3rds of the workforce). I know plenty of individuals who, upon starting a software engineering role, were immediately shipped Macbooks to use for work. I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is proof that "Apple's main clientele is business", but it certainly wouldn't surprise me. And it's not true that offices don't allocate Apples to workers.
- joshsyn 6y ago
  lol, apple fans chuckle. Typing this from my work macbook.
- Impossible 6y ago
  When I was at Facebook the majority of employees used Mac Book Pros for work (I was an exception because I worked on VR stuff which was Windows only). It seems like the majority of Silicon Valley big tech and unicorn startups have a large (if not majority) population of employees using Apple products for development. I understand that many employees prefer or need Linux or Windows, however.
  - DiabloD3 6y ago
    That seems to be the only places where MBPs are almost part of the dress code to work there. The HN community has a disproportional representation of such employment, and sometimes the Apple echo chamber shows up strongly because of it. It even happened at Microsoft until the Surface program was finally given a proper go ahead by Nadella. A lot of former MBP users seem to love the Surfacebook, so they succeeded in making a functional yet veblen good in the same vein that a MBP is.
    - Razengan 6y ago
      Apple's A12Z Under Rosetta Outperforms Microsoft's Native Arm-Based Surface Pro X: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/29/apple-rosetta-2-a12z-beats-surface-pro-x/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/29/apple-rosetta-2-a12z-be...
      - DiabloD3 6y ago
        Yes, but how well does it perform against something that isn't what might be their slowest (but thinnest and most portable, but somehow not cheapest) model? Apparently, a Surface with a Ryzen 4800U exists and is coming out really soon. The comparison isn't realistic because Apple's acquisition of PA Semi was a brilliant move, and no one makes an ARM that is anywhere near that level of performance, not even Qualcomm. I agree with Apple's decision to put their ARM on the desktop as their answer to the Intel dilemma. In this case, an ARM vs ARM comparison is not an apples to apples comparison, Apple does not license their design to anyone else, ergo, the only way to make a fair comparison is to use the best commonly available part, which currently, is Zen 2 parts. I expect a Zen 2 to crush a 2 year old Apple ARM, but I also expect a future Apple desktop and laptop design to keep up with Zen 3. I actually hope Apple can win the fight, but I also wish Apple would license their CPU to other manufacturers to promote the general adoption of more architectures in this space.
- WoodenChair 6y ago
  > The vast majority of Apple's customers are Apple fans, people who merely wish to think different, nothing more, nothing less. That is one of the most absurd takes I have ever seen by an Apple hater. Even haters usually acknowledge that Macs are used extensively in software development, scientific research, film editing, design work, and education. And Apple is the fourth largest PC maker in the world, so they’re also used just about everywhere else at least a little bit.
- whynotminot 6y ago
  > I don't know of a single employee of a serious actual business that has been issued an Apple anything. Not a laptop, desktop, or phone. I don't know of a single person that, when given the choice of what to use for work, has chosen Apple unless they already were entrenched in the Apple ecosystem. What are you doing on this website because you clearly don't work in software.
- frou_dh 6y ago
  The most rabid anti-Mac people I've met, when pressed, knew zero or close to zero about MacOS. Basically, fear-of-the-unknown was what it was.
- Razengan 6y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
- OkGoDoIt 6y ago
  At least in the tech world, I have found this varies massively by location. Every single job I’ve had in San Francisco has been 99% Apple MacBooks in use by all eng employees and I’ve had to fight really hard to be allowed to use a PC. But I’ve also had plenty of eng jobs outside of the bay area and those tend to be on PCs with the occasional Mac user, often stereotypically a designer. It’s kind of astounding how completely different the world is when you get outside of the bay area bubble, and most of my tech friends in San Francisco don’t seem to understand that, and give me crap for preferring to use a PC.
- smabie 6y ago
  Every job I've ever had has issued me a Mac. Mac Pros are heavily used by academics and Macbooks by developers. I would have preferred Linux myself, but OSX is way better than Windows, that's for sure.

by wu_187 6y ago

ulfw 6y ago

"the vast majority of Apple's clientele for computers are businesses" I'm sorry? What?!

saagarjha 6y ago

I suggest you pick up an iPad and try doing something demanding on it.

DiabloD3 6y ago

I don't know of a single employee of a serious actual business that has been issued an Apple anything. Not a laptop, desktop, or phone. I don't know of a single person that, when given the choice of what to use for work, has chosen Apple unless they already were entrenched in the Apple ecosystem. The vast majority of Apple's customers are Apple fans, people who merely wish to think different, nothing more, nothing less. Edit: Don't downvote just to disagree. Comment and state your reasoning on why you think I'm wrong. If you work for a company that only issues Apple devices, please speak up with your experience on how this went, and, if possible, why the company didn't go with Windows or Linux computers instead. For the comments that try to bring up software development roles: most software developers I know either use Windows or use Linux on the desktop, and loath OSX worse than I do. Very few prefer OSX. The few people I know that prefer OSX (and will die on that hill) are frontend developers.

Razengan 6y ago
https://www.google.com/search?q=Mac+at+NASA&prmd=inmv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&biw=375&bih=635&dpr=3 https://www.google.com/search?q=Mac+at+NASA&prmd=inmv&source...
- Razengan 6y ago
  Of course DiabloD3 chose to ignore this.
saagarjha 6y ago
Do you consider software engineering to be a "serious actual business", or are you going to gatekeep it to match whatever your notion of one is until they can only use software that is Windows-only?
ivanbakel 6y ago
If you're throwing around anecdotes, then my most recent workplaces allocated Macbooks, and Apple peripherals, to every non-technical person in the office (~2/3rds of the workforce). I know plenty of individuals who, upon starting a software engineering role, were immediately shipped Macbooks to use for work. I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is proof that "Apple's main clientele is business", but it certainly wouldn't surprise me. And it's not true that offices don't allocate Apples to workers.
joshsyn 6y ago
lol, apple fans chuckle. Typing this from my work macbook.
Impossible 6y ago
When I was at Facebook the majority of employees used Mac Book Pros for work (I was an exception because I worked on VR stuff which was Windows only). It seems like the majority of Silicon Valley big tech and unicorn startups have a large (if not majority) population of employees using Apple products for development. I understand that many employees prefer or need Linux or Windows, however.
- DiabloD3 6y ago
  That seems to be the only places where MBPs are almost part of the dress code to work there. The HN community has a disproportional representation of such employment, and sometimes the Apple echo chamber shows up strongly because of it. It even happened at Microsoft until the Surface program was finally given a proper go ahead by Nadella. A lot of former MBP users seem to love the Surfacebook, so they succeeded in making a functional yet veblen good in the same vein that a MBP is.
  - Razengan 6y ago
    Apple's A12Z Under Rosetta Outperforms Microsoft's Native Arm-Based Surface Pro X: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/29/apple-rosetta-2-a12z-beats-surface-pro-x/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/29/apple-rosetta-2-a12z-be...
    - DiabloD3 6y ago
      Yes, but how well does it perform against something that isn't what might be their slowest (but thinnest and most portable, but somehow not cheapest) model? Apparently, a Surface with a Ryzen 4800U exists and is coming out really soon. The comparison isn't realistic because Apple's acquisition of PA Semi was a brilliant move, and no one makes an ARM that is anywhere near that level of performance, not even Qualcomm. I agree with Apple's decision to put their ARM on the desktop as their answer to the Intel dilemma. In this case, an ARM vs ARM comparison is not an apples to apples comparison, Apple does not license their design to anyone else, ergo, the only way to make a fair comparison is to use the best commonly available part, which currently, is Zen 2 parts. I expect a Zen 2 to crush a 2 year old Apple ARM, but I also expect a future Apple desktop and laptop design to keep up with Zen 3. I actually hope Apple can win the fight, but I also wish Apple would license their CPU to other manufacturers to promote the general adoption of more architectures in this space.
WoodenChair 6y ago
> The vast majority of Apple's customers are Apple fans, people who merely wish to think different, nothing more, nothing less. That is one of the most absurd takes I have ever seen by an Apple hater. Even haters usually acknowledge that Macs are used extensively in software development, scientific research, film editing, design work, and education. And Apple is the fourth largest PC maker in the world, so they’re also used just about everywhere else at least a little bit.
whynotminot 6y ago
> I don't know of a single employee of a serious actual business that has been issued an Apple anything. Not a laptop, desktop, or phone. I don't know of a single person that, when given the choice of what to use for work, has chosen Apple unless they already were entrenched in the Apple ecosystem. What are you doing on this website because you clearly don't work in software.
frou_dh 6y ago
The most rabid anti-Mac people I've met, when pressed, knew zero or close to zero about MacOS. Basically, fear-of-the-unknown was what it was.
Razengan 6y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
OkGoDoIt 6y ago
At least in the tech world, I have found this varies massively by location. Every single job I’ve had in San Francisco has been 99% Apple MacBooks in use by all eng employees and I’ve had to fight really hard to be allowed to use a PC. But I’ve also had plenty of eng jobs outside of the bay area and those tend to be on PCs with the occasional Mac user, often stereotypically a designer. It’s kind of astounding how completely different the world is when you get outside of the bay area bubble, and most of my tech friends in San Francisco don’t seem to understand that, and give me crap for preferring to use a PC.
smabie 6y ago
Every job I've ever had has issued me a Mac. Mac Pros are heavily used by academics and Macbooks by developers. I would have preferred Linux myself, but OSX is way better than Windows, that's for sure.