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How TikTok and ByteDance could be using – and abusing – user data

spcebar 6y ago
I'm all for protecting user data, but this article does an extremely poor job demonstrating why the app is a security risk besides saying that it's a Chinese company, which we know.
- Nightshaxx 6y ago
  As the article says, it's not about what they are collecting. It's about what they would do with that information and who they would ban. Yes the US government does collect information, but at least to some extent they can be held accountable by it's citizens. No one can hold the CCP accountable and they can use these companies as a proxy to enforce Chinese censorship in other countries. (See Zoom banning US accounts made by Chinese protestors) So I think you see the ban as a technological security risk, which, relative to most other big tech, it's not. It's a national security risk to the US and India.
  - curiousgal 6y ago
    I find it strange that people still defend the U.S. in a post-Snowden world. > held accountable How exactly? For all we know the CIA is still doing it's thing. As for U.S. companies spying on people, I am sure fines have taught them not to. /s Censorship is bad but it's TikTok, it's not like the censored parties would lose sleep over it. Same with Zoom, the plethora of alternatives make it a non-issue in my opinion.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    > Iraq could be harboring weapons of mass destruction Too many of these articles feel like they're part of creating manufactured consent. It's all too common in the history of the US, and sadly works every time.
  - codyswann 6y ago
    I think more specifically, the question is - what information is given away on TikTok that, if used by the CCP, presents a national security risk to the US?
chenzhekl 6y ago
As a Chinese, I'm really tired of seeing such news being pushed to the frontpage of HN. Sure, the data big companies are collecting nowadays are concerning. But it's not specific to Chinese companies. Well, people may say they don't trust the Chinese government. How is the US government better? Has Snowden been forgotten already? Endlessly selective criticism towards China make us think if people from other countries are just inclined to think that the CCP is evil, and so is China. As a result, everything that is connected to China is (especially) bad.
- cochne 6y ago
  As an American I somewhat agree with your sentiment in that Google is probably just as bad as ByteDance. However, I think we see about the same amount of flak against Google on this website so I don’t agree with your point about it being specific to China. Also, I believe the CCP is certainly evil based on reports of numerous human rights violations. The USA is also on the whole evil, but I would say to a much lesser degree.
- ccpisevil 6y ago
  The Snowden revelations pale in comparison to the abuses of the evil CCP. Has The Great Leap Forward been forgotten already? Or, if that's too long ago, let's ask the Uighurs. But don't be too quick to agree; I wouldn't want the CCP to disappear any of your family for being critical of the regime. Because you know, that's what happens in the US when someone is critical of Trump, they get sent to a black site. Oh wait, no, that doesn't happen in the US.
- chillacy 6y ago
  US attitudes towards China are at all time lows [1]. It doesn't seem as bad as the 1960's and the USSR, but I'm fearing that the rhetoric continues to get more polarizing until we're at "better dead than red". Don't think China doesn't do this as well either, state media in China has been seeding anti-US sentiment for awhile. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/04/21/u-s-views-of-china-increasingly-negative-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/04/21/u-s-views-of-c...
- 0xdeadb00f 6y ago
DarthGhandi 6y ago
> Samantha Hoffman and Fergus Ryan, both experts on China at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute As a patriotic Australian I'd like to give you all a friendly reminder about ASPI. While presenting themselves as an independent think tank for the Asia Pacific region they are anything but. This organisation that pumps out news articles more than papers are entirely funded by companies and departments that need ever more war and security theatre to feed their budgets. Some of their biggest donors include Raytheon, BAE, Northrup Gunnman and the US department of state, not to mention the Australian department of defense. Ironically we only found out about the foreign funding due to electoral interference laws originally aimed at the Chinese, no one knew about this US funding until they were forced to disclose it. How "independent" does that sound as a source for expert advice on a scale of one to ten? For an organisation that supposedly has Australia's best interest at heart they somehow manage to constantly get everything wrong from Saddamm's imaginary weapons of mass destruction to our decades long involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, the rise of ISIS, the terrible materiel purchases that were billions more than they should be and protecting a man who proudly commits and boasts about extrajudicial murder in the Philippines. Australian politicians across a wide political spectrum have voiced deep concerns about their influence and funding sources. Does this sound like a group of people that really care about advancing Australia, or something else is at work? I'm all for protecting data from overzealous evil companies, but you'll be waiting a very long time for these _independent_ national security specialists to say a single thing about the forty other apps on Australian phones sending sensitive data across the globe every minute. https://www.michaelwest.com.au/independent-think-tank-aspi-behind-push-for-more-defence-spending-rakes-in-advisory-fees/ https://www.michaelwest.com.au/independent-think-tank-aspi-b... https://johnmenadue.com/john-menadue-australian-strategic-policy-institute-by-their-fruits-you-will-know-them/ https://johnmenadue.com/john-menadue-australian-strategic-po...
martinaoe2 6y ago
Don't think China can complain too much when the west bans Chinese companies for any reason. They have been doing it for years in China. I wish we could target the platforms that give apps access to this info. Can we please develop a non-google (ad company) platform?
bobbydreamer 6y ago
Sommeone needs to build a app which is sort of VM Player in a mobile device, where you can install the app inside and we choose the location or country where this VM can be hosted. Just so you know nobody tracks location. I couldn't be the only one with this idea.

I'm all for protecting user data, but this article does an extremely poor job demonstrating why the app is a security risk besides saying that it's a Chinese company, which we know.

Nightshaxx 6y ago
As the article says, it's not about what they are collecting. It's about what they would do with that information and who they would ban. Yes the US government does collect information, but at least to some extent they can be held accountable by it's citizens. No one can hold the CCP accountable and they can use these companies as a proxy to enforce Chinese censorship in other countries. (See Zoom banning US accounts made by Chinese protestors) So I think you see the ban as a technological security risk, which, relative to most other big tech, it's not. It's a national security risk to the US and India.
- curiousgal 6y ago
  I find it strange that people still defend the U.S. in a post-Snowden world. > held accountable How exactly? For all we know the CIA is still doing it's thing. As for U.S. companies spying on people, I am sure fines have taught them not to. /s Censorship is bad but it's TikTok, it's not like the censored parties would lose sleep over it. Same with Zoom, the plethora of alternatives make it a non-issue in my opinion.
- chillacy 6y ago
  > Iraq could be harboring weapons of mass destruction Too many of these articles feel like they're part of creating manufactured consent. It's all too common in the history of the US, and sadly works every time.
- codyswann 6y ago
  I think more specifically, the question is - what information is given away on TikTok that, if used by the CCP, presents a national security risk to the US?

chenzhekl 6y ago

As a Chinese, I'm really tired of seeing such news being pushed to the frontpage of HN. Sure, the data big companies are collecting nowadays are concerning. But it's not specific to Chinese companies. Well, people may say they don't trust the Chinese government. How is the US government better? Has Snowden been forgotten already? Endlessly selective criticism towards China make us think if people from other countries are just inclined to think that the CCP is evil, and so is China. As a result, everything that is connected to China is (especially) bad.

cochne 6y ago
As an American I somewhat agree with your sentiment in that Google is probably just as bad as ByteDance. However, I think we see about the same amount of flak against Google on this website so I don’t agree with your point about it being specific to China. Also, I believe the CCP is certainly evil based on reports of numerous human rights violations. The USA is also on the whole evil, but I would say to a much lesser degree.
ccpisevil 6y ago
The Snowden revelations pale in comparison to the abuses of the evil CCP. Has The Great Leap Forward been forgotten already? Or, if that's too long ago, let's ask the Uighurs. But don't be too quick to agree; I wouldn't want the CCP to disappear any of your family for being critical of the regime. Because you know, that's what happens in the US when someone is critical of Trump, they get sent to a black site. Oh wait, no, that doesn't happen in the US.
chillacy 6y ago
US attitudes towards China are at all time lows [1]. It doesn't seem as bad as the 1960's and the USSR, but I'm fearing that the rhetoric continues to get more polarizing until we're at "better dead than red". Don't think China doesn't do this as well either, state media in China has been seeding anti-US sentiment for awhile. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/04/21/u-s-views-of-china-increasingly-negative-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/04/21/u-s-views-of-c...
0xdeadb00f 6y ago

DarthGhandi 6y ago

> Samantha Hoffman and Fergus Ryan, both experts on China at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute As a patriotic Australian I'd like to give you all a friendly reminder about ASPI. While presenting themselves as an independent think tank for the Asia Pacific region they are anything but. This organisation that pumps out news articles more than papers are entirely funded by companies and departments that need ever more war and security theatre to feed their budgets. Some of their biggest donors include Raytheon, BAE, Northrup Gunnman and the US department of state, not to mention the Australian department of defense. Ironically we only found out about the foreign funding due to electoral interference laws originally aimed at the Chinese, no one knew about this US funding until they were forced to disclose it. How "independent" does that sound as a source for expert advice on a scale of one to ten? For an organisation that supposedly has Australia's best interest at heart they somehow manage to constantly get everything wrong from Saddamm's imaginary weapons of mass destruction to our decades long involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, the rise of ISIS, the terrible materiel purchases that were billions more than they should be and protecting a man who proudly commits and boasts about extrajudicial murder in the Philippines. Australian politicians across a wide political spectrum have voiced deep concerns about their influence and funding sources. Does this sound like a group of people that really care about advancing Australia, or something else is at work? I'm all for protecting data from overzealous evil companies, but you'll be waiting a very long time for these _independent_ national security specialists to say a single thing about the forty other apps on Australian phones sending sensitive data across the globe every minute. https://www.michaelwest.com.au/independent-think-tank-aspi-behind-push-for-more-defence-spending-rakes-in-advisory-fees/ https://www.michaelwest.com.au/independent-think-tank-aspi-b... https://johnmenadue.com/john-menadue-australian-strategic-policy-institute-by-their-fruits-you-will-know-them/ https://johnmenadue.com/john-menadue-australian-strategic-po...

martinaoe2 6y ago

Don't think China can complain too much when the west bans Chinese companies for any reason. They have been doing it for years in China. I wish we could target the platforms that give apps access to this info. Can we please develop a non-google (ad company) platform?

bobbydreamer 6y ago

Sommeone needs to build a app which is sort of VM Player in a mobile device, where you can install the app inside and we choose the location or country where this VM can be hosted. Just so you know nobody tracks location. I couldn't be the only one with this idea.