12 ms·

QAnon is running amok and the time has come for interventions

19 points by drewcon 6y ago

magnusmagnusson 6y ago
Will they 'intervene' against those that spread the Russiagate conspiracy theory too, or is this is accepted conspiracy theory because it's done by mainstream media that is staffed by intelligence community members, but I repeat myself.
- quattrofan 6y ago
  Except it's not a conspiracy is it? The report came via MI6 but you only have to look at how Trump behaves towards Putin to see something is not right.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    > you only have to look at how Trump behaves towards Putin to see something is not right Look at how she dresses, she must be a witch! That's basically your argument. Trump loves authoritarians, he has deep authoritarian instincts. But as someone on the left, am not at all happy with all the hysteria and censorship frenzy all this has resulted in, because it will ultimately be used against things I care about too. Seems too many don't have the foresight to see that.
    - take_a_breath 6y ago
      ==Seems too many don't have the foresight to see that.== Or they see things different than you, no need to insult. Perhaps they see the QAnon movement, which led a man to carry a rifle into an open pizza restaurant, as more of a danger than censorship? Maybe they are more worried about elected officials believing a politically-motivated conspiracy theory with zero evidence?
      - AsyncAwait 6y ago
        > Perhaps they see the QAnon movement, which led a man to carry a rifle into an open pizza restaurant, as more of a danger than censorship? I agree regarding QAnon, where there are direct, credible threats of violence, of course that should be taken down. I was responding to Russiagate, not QAnon. Russiagate has resulted in downranking anti-war voices that don't necessarily align with cable TV takes on foreign policy. Basically the equivalent of saying going into Iraq is a mistake or support for BDS.
        take_a_breath 6y ago
        By “Russiagate” are you referring to the FBI investing on of the Trump campaign’s communication with Russians? I’m not sure how investigating that was a bad idea. We also have a documented report that shows considerable coordination and a bunch of people pleaded guilty to crimes. Should we have not investigated crimes because people find it too political?
        AsyncAwait 6y ago
        > By “Russiagate” are you referring to the FBI investing on of the Trump campaign’s communication with Russians? No. The FBI investigation I have no problem with. The surrounding hysteria that led to Twitter banning real people as bots for expressing skepticism over foreign policy in i.e. the Middle East and the birth of various shady companies that promised to deal with the "bot problem", but were in fact using bots for spamming themselves[1]. > I’m not sure how investigating that was a bad idea. Investigating that wasn't. The various leaks that provided unnecessary fuel to the fire before the media storm before the investigators had their conclusions was not helpful however. > and a bunch of people pleaded guilty to crimes Yes. However these were usually for something they have done prior to working for Trump or for lying about certain details to the FBI, as far as I know no Americans were actually charged with conspiring with Russia during the election to benefit Trump, (whom I dislike BTW, but there's plenty of more substantial crimes that weren't looked at for some reason, like his dealings in Saudi Arabia even during the campaign or him using his hotels etc. for state business). > Should we have not investigated crimes because people find it too political? As I said above, the investigation I have no problem with. 1 - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/reid-hoffman-alabama-election-disinformation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/reid-hoffman-alabama-e...
    - stillbourne 6y ago
      Content moderation and editorial oversight is not censorship.
    - blisseyGo 6y ago
      > Trump loves authoritarians, he has deep authoritarian instincts The left keeps saying that but I have never understood why. Why would an "authoritarian" be defending people's right to bear arms (2A), their freedom of speech (1A), States rights (federalism 10A) etc. I would even go as far as to say that the left is the one which is authoritarian and simply enjoys name calling assigning labels to the right as described as a tactic by Saul Alinsky which also happens to be loved by Hillary and Obama.
merricksb 6y ago
Two large recent discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24094062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24094062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23912455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23912455
KennethMyers 6y ago
QAnon theories are false, but in my opinion, so are the beliefs of Islam. And if the standard required for censorship is that "someone with related beliefs killed someone in Germany", or "there's like a whole subreddit for people who are frustrated with family members who believe this", then we've got to ban Islam, Christianity, Rap music, eyeliner, sports, and probably everything else you can think of. Nobody banned 9/11 truthers from major internet communications protocols. Nobody banned birthers. The shift in the US, in less than a year, towards banning speech that annoys the elites, is something I would've thought impossible a mere few years ago. I was taught in high school that here in America we fought free speech with more free speech.
- fortytwo79 6y ago
  This, 100%. This is the point. Everyone is trying to assert the harmfulness of "misinformation," but is ignoring the harmfulness of censorship. Also, has anyone considered that conspiracy theories are on the rise because they're entertaining rather than because they're believed?
  - gremlinsinc 6y ago
    Who does this banning harm specifically?
mike503 6y ago
I searched the Wikileaks Podesta emails and unless something was removed, I think I only found one chain where pizza was used in a very questionable manner. I’m pretty sure I did an exhaustive search as well. Everything else was just chain mails about (normal sounding) pizza parties to celebrate the campaign and such. Email list stuff. Not coded messages. I will admit the one message is really weird, even trying to put it into some sort of legitimate context it’s hard to see how it would fit.
- blisseyGo 6y ago
  There's a lot in there. Search for terms like "hot dog", "domino", "walnut sauce", "pasta" etc.

19 points by drewcon 6y ago

Will they 'intervene' against those that spread the Russiagate conspiracy theory too, or is this is accepted conspiracy theory because it's done by mainstream media that is staffed by intelligence community members, but I repeat myself.

quattrofan 6y ago
Except it's not a conspiracy is it? The report came via MI6 but you only have to look at how Trump behaves towards Putin to see something is not right.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > you only have to look at how Trump behaves towards Putin to see something is not right Look at how she dresses, she must be a witch! That's basically your argument. Trump loves authoritarians, he has deep authoritarian instincts. But as someone on the left, am not at all happy with all the hysteria and censorship frenzy all this has resulted in, because it will ultimately be used against things I care about too. Seems too many don't have the foresight to see that.
  - take_a_breath 6y ago
    ==Seems too many don't have the foresight to see that.== Or they see things different than you, no need to insult. Perhaps they see the QAnon movement, which led a man to carry a rifle into an open pizza restaurant, as more of a danger than censorship? Maybe they are more worried about elected officials believing a politically-motivated conspiracy theory with zero evidence?
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      > Perhaps they see the QAnon movement, which led a man to carry a rifle into an open pizza restaurant, as more of a danger than censorship? I agree regarding QAnon, where there are direct, credible threats of violence, of course that should be taken down. I was responding to Russiagate, not QAnon. Russiagate has resulted in downranking anti-war voices that don't necessarily align with cable TV takes on foreign policy. Basically the equivalent of saying going into Iraq is a mistake or support for BDS.
      - take_a_breath 6y ago
        By “Russiagate” are you referring to the FBI investing on of the Trump campaign’s communication with Russians? I’m not sure how investigating that was a bad idea. We also have a documented report that shows considerable coordination and a bunch of people pleaded guilty to crimes. Should we have not investigated crimes because people find it too political?
        AsyncAwait 6y ago
        > By “Russiagate” are you referring to the FBI investing on of the Trump campaign’s communication with Russians? No. The FBI investigation I have no problem with. The surrounding hysteria that led to Twitter banning real people as bots for expressing skepticism over foreign policy in i.e. the Middle East and the birth of various shady companies that promised to deal with the "bot problem", but were in fact using bots for spamming themselves[1]. > I’m not sure how investigating that was a bad idea. Investigating that wasn't. The various leaks that provided unnecessary fuel to the fire before the media storm before the investigators had their conclusions was not helpful however. > and a bunch of people pleaded guilty to crimes Yes. However these were usually for something they have done prior to working for Trump or for lying about certain details to the FBI, as far as I know no Americans were actually charged with conspiring with Russia during the election to benefit Trump, (whom I dislike BTW, but there's plenty of more substantial crimes that weren't looked at for some reason, like his dealings in Saudi Arabia even during the campaign or him using his hotels etc. for state business). > Should we have not investigated crimes because people find it too political? As I said above, the investigation I have no problem with. 1 - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/reid-hoffman-alabama-election-disinformation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/reid-hoffman-alabama-e...
  - stillbourne 6y ago
    Content moderation and editorial oversight is not censorship.
  - blisseyGo 6y ago
    > Trump loves authoritarians, he has deep authoritarian instincts The left keeps saying that but I have never understood why. Why would an "authoritarian" be defending people's right to bear arms (2A), their freedom of speech (1A), States rights (federalism 10A) etc. I would even go as far as to say that the left is the one which is authoritarian and simply enjoys name calling assigning labels to the right as described as a tactic by Saul Alinsky which also happens to be loved by Hillary and Obama.

merricksb 6y ago

Two large recent discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24094062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24094062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23912455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23912455

KennethMyers 6y ago

QAnon theories are false, but in my opinion, so are the beliefs of Islam. And if the standard required for censorship is that "someone with related beliefs killed someone in Germany", or "there's like a whole subreddit for people who are frustrated with family members who believe this", then we've got to ban Islam, Christianity, Rap music, eyeliner, sports, and probably everything else you can think of. Nobody banned 9/11 truthers from major internet communications protocols. Nobody banned birthers. The shift in the US, in less than a year, towards banning speech that annoys the elites, is something I would've thought impossible a mere few years ago. I was taught in high school that here in America we fought free speech with more free speech.

fortytwo79 6y ago
This, 100%. This is the point. Everyone is trying to assert the harmfulness of "misinformation," but is ignoring the harmfulness of censorship. Also, has anyone considered that conspiracy theories are on the rise because they're entertaining rather than because they're believed?
- gremlinsinc 6y ago
  Who does this banning harm specifically?

mike503 6y ago

I searched the Wikileaks Podesta emails and unless something was removed, I think I only found one chain where pizza was used in a very questionable manner. I’m pretty sure I did an exhaustive search as well. Everything else was just chain mails about (normal sounding) pizza parties to celebrate the campaign and such. Email list stuff. Not coded messages. I will admit the one message is really weird, even trying to put it into some sort of legitimate context it’s hard to see how it would fit.

blisseyGo 6y ago
There's a lot in there. Search for terms like "hot dog", "domino", "walnut sauce", "pasta" etc.