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This. You have to call a bully's possible bluff when you can do so on a shoestring. They may seem to have unlimited resources, but a legal dept doesn't actuall

This. You have to call a bully's possible bluff when you can do so on a shoestring. They may seem to have unlimited resources, but a legal dept doesn't actually have a bottomless budget, and it has to demonstrate ROI to the CFO's office. Many attorneys you might consult won't realize this, because they can't conceive of a scenario where you don't need maximal legal representation. When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like... :-)

patentatt 6y ago
It’s a little more nuanced than that. Lawyers have ethical obligations to provide sound legal advice and counseling, whether they’re paid for it or not. As in, the legal ethics structure doesn’t really allow for (purposely and knowingly) doing a shoddy job. The lawyer could be on the hook for either doing a bunch of free work or getting disbarred by signing up to do a ‘bare minimum’ job. Maybe there should be a carve out for situations like this.
- k_sze 6y ago
  I thought that's where law student interns come in. Basically law firms hire law students. When stuff like this comes up, the real lawyer can give hints to the law student and the law student goes talk with the client. The law student has no real obligation as far as the Bar goes (because they're just a student). The real lawyer also never made any direct advice to the client so they are also off the hook.
  - networkimprov 6y ago
    Law students do not "talk with the client" in the US. They're not licensed, so are barred from giving legal advice.
  - patentatt 6y ago
    In these sorts of legal clinics the students work under a supervising attorney who is ultimately responsible for the representation.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  > Maybe there should be a carve out for situations like this. There already is one, it's called hourly billing. You come up with a reasonable plan, and you decide when to call it quits later if the bill gets too high.
  - networkimprov 6y ago
    The point of a carve-out would be to avoid any billing.

patentatt 6y ago

It’s a little more nuanced than that. Lawyers have ethical obligations to provide sound legal advice and counseling, whether they’re paid for it or not. As in, the legal ethics structure doesn’t really allow for (purposely and knowingly) doing a shoddy job. The lawyer could be on the hook for either doing a bunch of free work or getting disbarred by signing up to do a ‘bare minimum’ job. Maybe there should be a carve out for situations like this.

k_sze 6y ago
I thought that's where law student interns come in. Basically law firms hire law students. When stuff like this comes up, the real lawyer can give hints to the law student and the law student goes talk with the client. The law student has no real obligation as far as the Bar goes (because they're just a student). The real lawyer also never made any direct advice to the client so they are also off the hook.
- networkimprov 6y ago
  Law students do not "talk with the client" in the US. They're not licensed, so are barred from giving legal advice.
- patentatt 6y ago
  In these sorts of legal clinics the students work under a supervising attorney who is ultimately responsible for the representation.
linuxftw 6y ago
> Maybe there should be a carve out for situations like this. There already is one, it's called hourly billing. You come up with a reasonable plan, and you decide when to call it quits later if the bill gets too high.
- networkimprov 6y ago
  The point of a carve-out would be to avoid any billing.