5 ms·

Sorry, are we implying that it's better for society if people don't pay their debts?

by newfriend 6y ago

aaomidi 6y ago
During a pandemic? Yes.
- refurb 6y ago
  Always? What about the people still working? Or people with significant savings?
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
    The thing about mass unemployment is that many people end up relying on the people around them for sustenance even though there are government programs.
- gjs278 6y ago
  i’ll be sure to rack up a bunch of debt and just shrug my shoulders when I can’t work
anigbrowl 6y ago
In some circumstances, yes.
Igelau 6y ago
We're talking about collection agencies here. This isn't about paying money back to the people you owe. This is a profitable business that doesn't care what's good for society. Wage garnishment for something like outrageous medical bills that gets paid to some parasite company isn't really better for society.
monadic2 6y ago
Yes, 100%. I highly, highly recommend the book "Debt: The First 5,000 Years". Society has repeatedly been stabilized with mass debt forgiveness many times throughout history. I'm no religious person, but there certainly seems to be a certain theme about debt forgiveness... https://www.openbible.info/topics/debt_forgiveness https://www.openbible.info/topics/debt_forgiveness Debt is pretty central to most problems in society, actually.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- newfriend 6y ago
  Forgiving the debts of the irresponsible effectively punishes those who are responsible with money, and leads to a society with no trust.
- syshum 6y ago
  The problem with your attempts to equate modern debt with debt of the past is 2 fold 1. Historical debt like referred to in the book that destabilized society was generational debt, passed on in the family. Unlike modern debt where your debt dies with you. 2. Historical debt there was no concept of bankruptcy in the legal systems of that time. There was also debtor prison and indentured servitude to pay off debt. Those 2 factors are what destabilized societies and caused the need for mass debt forgiveness, we solved those by changing the lender risk metric, and allowing for a case by case relief valve called bankruptcy
  - Igelau 6y ago
    > we solved those by changing the lender risk metric, and allowing for a case by case relief valve called bankruptcy Student loan debt breaks both of these. Student loans were supposed to be low risk, but the jobs never materialized, and they can't be discharged by bankruptcy. There's also the matter of people even being able to afford to file for bankruptcy. Just for that you're looking in the ballpark of $1500 in court and attorney fees.
    - syshum 6y ago
      >Student loan debt breaks both of these. Not true, only government backed student loans are non-dischargable via bankruptcy (but there are other programs in place in lieu of bankruptcy including income bases repayment), other types of student loans are. >Student loans were supposed to be low risk Low risk to the LENDER not the borrower, they are low risk because they are guaranteed by the federal government >but the jobs never materialized That depends on your field of study, it was always a myth that just have any degree would net you a high paying job. If you fell for that will I am sorry you got scammed STEM fields still have a high ROI on their education, but Liberal Arts, Social "Sciences" and other such non-STEM fields do not and never will >There's also the matter of people even being able to afford to file for bankruptcy. Just for that you're looking in the ballpark of $1500 in court and attorney fees. I take it you have never been through a personal bankruptcy. The first thing the lawyer will tell you is to stop all payments on all debt (for Chapter 7), it is with this money you will use to pay the costs and fees. If you have any income at all the filing fees are not a burden. In the event you waited to the point where are literally broke with no assets, and no money at all, only debt well not only did you wait far far far far too long before seeking bankruptcy protection there are ways to do it with deferred payments even some non-profits will help For most people, you file for bankruptcy protection long before your situation is so dire you do not even have the filing fee money (which is about 1 month part time salary from Walmart)

Sorry, are we implying that it's better for society if people don't pay their debts?

aaomidi 6y ago

During a pandemic? Yes.

refurb 6y ago
Always? What about the people still working? Or people with significant savings?
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  The thing about mass unemployment is that many people end up relying on the people around them for sustenance even though there are government programs.
gjs278 6y ago
i’ll be sure to rack up a bunch of debt and just shrug my shoulders when I can’t work

anigbrowl 6y ago

In some circumstances, yes.

Igelau 6y ago

We're talking about collection agencies here. This isn't about paying money back to the people you owe. This is a profitable business that doesn't care what's good for society. Wage garnishment for something like outrageous medical bills that gets paid to some parasite company isn't really better for society.

monadic2 6y ago

Yes, 100%. I highly, highly recommend the book "Debt: The First 5,000 Years". Society has repeatedly been stabilized with mass debt forgiveness many times throughout history. I'm no religious person, but there certainly seems to be a certain theme about debt forgiveness... https://www.openbible.info/topics/debt_forgiveness https://www.openbible.info/topics/debt_forgiveness Debt is pretty central to most problems in society, actually.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
newfriend 6y ago
Forgiving the debts of the irresponsible effectively punishes those who are responsible with money, and leads to a society with no trust.
syshum 6y ago
The problem with your attempts to equate modern debt with debt of the past is 2 fold 1. Historical debt like referred to in the book that destabilized society was generational debt, passed on in the family. Unlike modern debt where your debt dies with you. 2. Historical debt there was no concept of bankruptcy in the legal systems of that time. There was also debtor prison and indentured servitude to pay off debt. Those 2 factors are what destabilized societies and caused the need for mass debt forgiveness, we solved those by changing the lender risk metric, and allowing for a case by case relief valve called bankruptcy
- Igelau 6y ago
  > we solved those by changing the lender risk metric, and allowing for a case by case relief valve called bankruptcy Student loan debt breaks both of these. Student loans were supposed to be low risk, but the jobs never materialized, and they can't be discharged by bankruptcy. There's also the matter of people even being able to afford to file for bankruptcy. Just for that you're looking in the ballpark of $1500 in court and attorney fees.
  - syshum 6y ago
    >Student loan debt breaks both of these. Not true, only government backed student loans are non-dischargable via bankruptcy (but there are other programs in place in lieu of bankruptcy including income bases repayment), other types of student loans are. >Student loans were supposed to be low risk Low risk to the LENDER not the borrower, they are low risk because they are guaranteed by the federal government >but the jobs never materialized That depends on your field of study, it was always a myth that just have any degree would net you a high paying job. If you fell for that will I am sorry you got scammed STEM fields still have a high ROI on their education, but Liberal Arts, Social "Sciences" and other such non-STEM fields do not and never will >There's also the matter of people even being able to afford to file for bankruptcy. Just for that you're looking in the ballpark of $1500 in court and attorney fees. I take it you have never been through a personal bankruptcy. The first thing the lawyer will tell you is to stop all payments on all debt (for Chapter 7), it is with this money you will use to pay the costs and fees. If you have any income at all the filing fees are not a burden. In the event you waited to the point where are literally broke with no assets, and no money at all, only debt well not only did you wait far far far far too long before seeking bankruptcy protection there are ways to do it with deferred payments even some non-profits will help For most people, you file for bankruptcy protection long before your situation is so dire you do not even have the filing fee money (which is about 1 month part time salary from Walmart)