5 ms·

I'd love for the US to adopt a standard that is bank agnostic, like ACH, but allows for near real-time payments from P2P but also person to business payments.

by lykr0n 6y ago

I'd love for the US to adopt a standard that is bank agnostic, like ACH, but allows for near real-time payments from P2P but also person to business payments. It's a big problem when Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal control a large part of money transactions.

ktta 6y ago
There is one. It is called RTP - Real time payments It is currently undergoing adoption among several big banks, although adoption for individual non-corporate accounts is slow
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  How does it compare to Zelle (Early Warning Systems) from an integration and cost perspective for financial partners? Personally, I’d rather the Fed run real time payments instead of some private consortium made up of the largest US banks (some governance/overnight vs less so as a private corporation), but the Fed’s been dragging their feet for years while Zelle has rolled out quickly. Humorously, Facebook’s Libra is what set a fire under the Fed [1] [2]. [1] https://www.bankingdive.com/news/fed-gives-new-details-on-its-real-time-payments-system/583153/ https://www.bankingdive.com/news/fed-gives-new-details-on-it... [2] https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/files/other20200806a1.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/file... (warning: 50 page pdf)
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    "Personally, I’d rather the Fed run real time payments instead of some private consortium made up of the largest US banks " I allways thought, that the fed is exactly this? A private consortium out of the biggest US banks? (But I am not a US citizen, but this is what I understood and thought strange, compared to the EU for example)
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      It’s a public private hybrid entity that is accountable to the US Congress (who also defines their mandate). https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12798.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12798.htm
jmole 6y ago
Visa, Mastercard, and Paypal offer more than transactions though; they have "buyer protection", "seller protection", etc. In theory, all you need is institutional trust and KYC, but as soon as you hit a situation like, "oh shit, someone stole my wallet (/ online identity)", you realize why the fees are there.
- Animats 6y ago
  Right. UPI appears to be a payment system only. Not a sales transaction system. When you buy something with a credit card, there is evidence of a transaction in both directions - you buy some thing from a seller. That allows disputes, dispute resolution, and reversal. A one-way payment system, such as Venmo, lacks that. (Venmo is trying to retrofit a dispute mechanism, for which they charge 3% extra.) What's Google proposing? Probably something with terms that include "sole discretion" (theirs) and forced arbitration.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    The article is a fairly easy read, and would answer your question "What's Google proposing". They don't seem to be proposing "sole discretion" or forced arbitration. The Indian UPI system specifically involves a central agent, effectively a government body, that is involved in setting up and authenticating all transactions that occur using UPI.
- smart_jackal 6y ago
  >> "oh shit, someone stole my wallet (/ online identity)" Isn't one supposed to be responsible for their own passwords/security? Does Microsoft take responsibility if someone steals your windows password or hacks your computer? No, they will just say its you who didn't install the security updates. Why should a banking transaction be any different?
  - nurettin 6y ago
    Because banking is serious business and windows is not.
  - 6y ago
vishnugupta 6y ago
FedNow is exactly this system [1]. What’s more it’s an initiative by none other than the federal reserve which can, to an extent, twist financial institutions’ arms to adopt it. [1] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/announcing-fednow-service-features-functionality.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/announ...
closeparen 6y ago
We already have wire transfers, but due to high costs they are really only used for high value transactions.
- tialaramex 6y ago
  Wire transfers are literally nineteenth century technology. They're a bad choice today for transactions of any value. They're amazing if, in fact, you don't yet have the Public Switched Telephone Network, and so ordinarily data moves no faster than a horse in your culture. And they're completely astounding if you do not yet have the Universal Postal Union and so ordinarily data doesn't move over long distances at all. But if you live in the mid-20th century or later you can do better. "Let's make wire transfers free" is one of those ideas which you'd come up through lack of imagination. There's an apocryphal Henry Ford quote about customers wanting "faster horses" but more recently when people had no idea they all wanted a handheld computer we told them it was a "mobile telephone" so they'd buy it and we could let them discover they've never wanted a telephone anyway but they did actually want a handheld computer.

by lykr0n 6y ago

ktta 6y ago

There is one. It is called RTP - Real time payments It is currently undergoing adoption among several big banks, although adoption for individual non-corporate accounts is slow

toomuchtodo 6y ago
How does it compare to Zelle (Early Warning Systems) from an integration and cost perspective for financial partners? Personally, I’d rather the Fed run real time payments instead of some private consortium made up of the largest US banks (some governance/overnight vs less so as a private corporation), but the Fed’s been dragging their feet for years while Zelle has rolled out quickly. Humorously, Facebook’s Libra is what set a fire under the Fed [1] [2]. [1] https://www.bankingdive.com/news/fed-gives-new-details-on-its-real-time-payments-system/583153/ https://www.bankingdive.com/news/fed-gives-new-details-on-it... [2] https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/files/other20200806a1.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/file... (warning: 50 page pdf)
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  "Personally, I’d rather the Fed run real time payments instead of some private consortium made up of the largest US banks " I allways thought, that the fed is exactly this? A private consortium out of the biggest US banks? (But I am not a US citizen, but this is what I understood and thought strange, compared to the EU for example)
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    It’s a public private hybrid entity that is accountable to the US Congress (who also defines their mandate). https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12798.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12798.htm

jmole 6y ago

Visa, Mastercard, and Paypal offer more than transactions though; they have "buyer protection", "seller protection", etc. In theory, all you need is institutional trust and KYC, but as soon as you hit a situation like, "oh shit, someone stole my wallet (/ online identity)", you realize why the fees are there.

Animats 6y ago
Right. UPI appears to be a payment system only. Not a sales transaction system. When you buy something with a credit card, there is evidence of a transaction in both directions - you buy some thing from a seller. That allows disputes, dispute resolution, and reversal. A one-way payment system, such as Venmo, lacks that. (Venmo is trying to retrofit a dispute mechanism, for which they charge 3% extra.) What's Google proposing? Probably something with terms that include "sole discretion" (theirs) and forced arbitration.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  The article is a fairly easy read, and would answer your question "What's Google proposing". They don't seem to be proposing "sole discretion" or forced arbitration. The Indian UPI system specifically involves a central agent, effectively a government body, that is involved in setting up and authenticating all transactions that occur using UPI.
smart_jackal 6y ago
>> "oh shit, someone stole my wallet (/ online identity)" Isn't one supposed to be responsible for their own passwords/security? Does Microsoft take responsibility if someone steals your windows password or hacks your computer? No, they will just say its you who didn't install the security updates. Why should a banking transaction be any different?
- nurettin 6y ago
  Because banking is serious business and windows is not.
- 6y ago

vishnugupta 6y ago

FedNow is exactly this system [1]. What’s more it’s an initiative by none other than the federal reserve which can, to an extent, twist financial institutions’ arms to adopt it. [1] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/announcing-fednow-service-features-functionality.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/announ...

closeparen 6y ago

We already have wire transfers, but due to high costs they are really only used for high value transactions.

tialaramex 6y ago
Wire transfers are literally nineteenth century technology. They're a bad choice today for transactions of any value. They're amazing if, in fact, you don't yet have the Public Switched Telephone Network, and so ordinarily data moves no faster than a horse in your culture. And they're completely astounding if you do not yet have the Universal Postal Union and so ordinarily data doesn't move over long distances at all. But if you live in the mid-20th century or later you can do better. "Let's make wire transfers free" is one of those ideas which you'd come up through lack of imagination. There's an apocryphal Henry Ford quote about customers wanting "faster horses" but more recently when people had no idea they all wanted a handheld computer we told them it was a "mobile telephone" so they'd buy it and we could let them discover they've never wanted a telephone anyway but they did actually want a handheld computer.