4 ms·

> I'm a lefty, and that pretty much guarantees sloppy handwriting. Is that true? Why would being lefty mean sloppier handwriting? Smudgier maybe because of lef

> I'm a lefty, and that pretty much guarantees sloppy handwriting. Is that true? Why would being lefty mean sloppier handwriting? Smudgier maybe because of left-to-right writing system, but sloppier?

burke 6y ago
Pushing the pen is a little trickier than pulling it.
- mathieuh 6y ago
  Not sure that’s true, I used to work with a right-handed Pakistani person who was fully bilingual in Urdu and English and they claimed their handwriting was neater in Urdu than English. I couldn’t tell because I can’t read Perso-Arabic. Although it’s also possible that RTL writing systems like Perso-Arabic are designed in such a way that it’s ergonomic for the right-handed majority of the population to write in. It’s an interesting topic, wonder if there are any papers on it
  - ksaj 6y ago
    I think it is easier because the length of unbroken long lines isn't as long as in cursive Western writing. So they aren't push-hop-push-hop their way through long unbroken lines like we are. Lefties often prefer printing for exactly that reason. It's slower, but at least they can read it after.
bbarnett 6y ago
Pushing instead of pulling the pen, at least that seems part of it in my case. I've seen people write 'top down', but... Regardless, 'how people write' has typically been designed by righties. Fascists. Oh how they mock us.
- mehrdadn 6y ago
  Do you actually push instead of pulling for English as a leftie? I ask because you definitely don't need to "push instead of pull" for RTL languages if you're right-handed (though I'm not suggesting nobody does; I'm sure some fraction of people do), so it's hard for me to see why that would be true for left-handed folks in English.
  - ksaj 6y ago
    Look at the angle of the pen/pencil when a right handed and a left handed person is writing. The lefty is indeed pushing the point into the paper. Right handed people drag it. The lefties who try not to push it curl their wrists into that weird lefty-pose. That way does allow them to drag it. I don't do that, thankfully. It looks pretty bizarre, because writing shouldn't require such acrobatics.
    - mehrdadn 6y ago
      I think I miscommunicated my thoughts, but I was neither trying to say there aren't left-handed folks who push, nor that there aren't ones who pull with a weird pose. Rather, I was wondering if these are actually needed, or if one could do it differently (yet comfortably). Because I believe for LTR and RTL languages, people comfortably write with their right hands holding the pen at basically the same angle regardless of the text direction. Compare [1] with [2] for instance. In both cases the pen tip points to the "north northwest" (so to speak), yet the languages go in opposite directions. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG-i9yA_OHs&t=3m59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG-i9yA_OHs&t=3m59s [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwUkseFmqb4&t=1m19s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwUkseFmqb4&t=1m19s
      - ksaj 6y ago
        Yes, I see. I worked in Riyadh for a while. When it came to numbers, since they would generally be writing in Arabic, they'd leave a gap, and then write Western numbers LtoR, before going back to the start of the number and continuing on RtoL in Arabic. That's when it hit me that people who write Arabic push the pencil in the same way that lefties push it in LtoR languages. Interestingly I didn't see even one adopt the Lefty-hook hand with their right hand. Unfortunately I never noticed anyone there writing Arabic left-handedly. And I watched for it on purpose, because I was genuinely curious about that. One thing though, is that Arabic letters are formed in a different way than Western letters are. I suppose Western cursive gets close - but cursive is where lefties push the pencil most, and where writing begins to suffer. (Yes, as per other comments, there ARE lefties who can be tidy. But that's like saying there are grandma's out there that can't cook. Of course you can find examples if you look for them.) Incidentally, I don't do the lefty-hook thing either. But I'm well aware of it since it is part of so many lefty jokes, and I have seen quite a few people who do it.

> I'm a lefty, and that pretty much guarantees sloppy handwriting. Is that true? Why would being lefty mean sloppier handwriting? Smudgier maybe because of left-to-right writing system, but sloppier?

burke 6y ago

Pushing the pen is a little trickier than pulling it.

mathieuh 6y ago
Not sure that’s true, I used to work with a right-handed Pakistani person who was fully bilingual in Urdu and English and they claimed their handwriting was neater in Urdu than English. I couldn’t tell because I can’t read Perso-Arabic. Although it’s also possible that RTL writing systems like Perso-Arabic are designed in such a way that it’s ergonomic for the right-handed majority of the population to write in. It’s an interesting topic, wonder if there are any papers on it
- ksaj 6y ago
  I think it is easier because the length of unbroken long lines isn't as long as in cursive Western writing. So they aren't push-hop-push-hop their way through long unbroken lines like we are. Lefties often prefer printing for exactly that reason. It's slower, but at least they can read it after.

bbarnett 6y ago

Pushing instead of pulling the pen, at least that seems part of it in my case. I've seen people write 'top down', but... Regardless, 'how people write' has typically been designed by righties. Fascists. Oh how they mock us.

mehrdadn 6y ago
Do you actually push instead of pulling for English as a leftie? I ask because you definitely don't need to "push instead of pull" for RTL languages if you're right-handed (though I'm not suggesting nobody does; I'm sure some fraction of people do), so it's hard for me to see why that would be true for left-handed folks in English.
- ksaj 6y ago
  Look at the angle of the pen/pencil when a right handed and a left handed person is writing. The lefty is indeed pushing the point into the paper. Right handed people drag it. The lefties who try not to push it curl their wrists into that weird lefty-pose. That way does allow them to drag it. I don't do that, thankfully. It looks pretty bizarre, because writing shouldn't require such acrobatics.
  - mehrdadn 6y ago
    I think I miscommunicated my thoughts, but I was neither trying to say there aren't left-handed folks who push, nor that there aren't ones who pull with a weird pose. Rather, I was wondering if these are actually needed, or if one could do it differently (yet comfortably). Because I believe for LTR and RTL languages, people comfortably write with their right hands holding the pen at basically the same angle regardless of the text direction. Compare [1] with [2] for instance. In both cases the pen tip points to the "north northwest" (so to speak), yet the languages go in opposite directions. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG-i9yA_OHs&t=3m59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG-i9yA_OHs&t=3m59s [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwUkseFmqb4&t=1m19s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwUkseFmqb4&t=1m19s
    - ksaj 6y ago
      Yes, I see. I worked in Riyadh for a while. When it came to numbers, since they would generally be writing in Arabic, they'd leave a gap, and then write Western numbers LtoR, before going back to the start of the number and continuing on RtoL in Arabic. That's when it hit me that people who write Arabic push the pencil in the same way that lefties push it in LtoR languages. Interestingly I didn't see even one adopt the Lefty-hook hand with their right hand. Unfortunately I never noticed anyone there writing Arabic left-handedly. And I watched for it on purpose, because I was genuinely curious about that. One thing though, is that Arabic letters are formed in a different way than Western letters are. I suppose Western cursive gets close - but cursive is where lefties push the pencil most, and where writing begins to suffer. (Yes, as per other comments, there ARE lefties who can be tidy. But that's like saying there are grandma's out there that can't cook. Of course you can find examples if you look for them.) Incidentally, I don't do the lefty-hook thing either. But I'm well aware of it since it is part of so many lefty jokes, and I have seen quite a few people who do it.