4 ms·

Theory: huge swathes of people are hugely dissatisfied with their lives; long hours, poor pay, lack of social mobility, poor education (as others have said) and

by wgx 6y ago

Theory: huge swathes of people are hugely dissatisfied with their lives; long hours, poor pay, lack of social mobility, poor education (as others have said) and they feel there must be some thing tangible to blame for this. It’s fertile ground for conspiracy theories to grow.

Doctor_Fegg 6y ago
Exactly. This is how Brexit happened.
TaupeRanger 6y ago
I think that's part of it. I have also noticed that it tends to satisfy a deep desire in susceptible people for "secret knowledge". They thrive on the idea that the world is more dangerous and mysterious than it actually is, perhaps stemming from the malaise and depression that comes from those things you mentioned.
- wavepruner 6y ago
  I'm prone to consider "conspiracy theories" because something terrible happened to me that is adamantly denied by those in power. The terrible thing that happened to me does not feel like "secret knowledge" or a "conspiracy theory" at all. It is very real and the consequences I deal with are relevant to every minute of every day of my life. I don't feel depressed. My life is fulfilling and I find a tremendous amount of meaning in the work I do. I know many others who are prone to considering "conspiracy theories" who are the same.
  - seppin 6y ago
    > I'm prone to consider "conspiracy theories" because something terrible happened to me that is adamantly denied by those in power. You seem to be confusing "people in power abuse said power and never face consequences" (true) with Hilary Clinton operated a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza place" (not true).
    - wavepruner 6y ago
      Where did I say: "people in power abuse said power and never face consequences" or "Hilary Clinton operated a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza place"? It is very misleading to use quotes like I said anything along those lines. People in power face consequences all the time. I never denied that. It just takes a long time for a reckoning to happen. Often decades, or lifetimes. And I doubt QAnon conspiracy theory is as simple as "Hillary Clinton operated a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza place". You are oversimplifying my point, turning it into a false dichotomy, and assuming the QAnon conspiracy theory is only the idea that Hillary Clinton operated a pedophile ring. My point was that depressed losers aren't the only people open to controversial theories about people in power. I don't know many details about QAnon, and I don't care much to research it and come to an understanding myself. I have much more important things to spend my time on. But I do know from random posts I've encountered by QAnon people is that there is a wide range of beliefs regarding who is involved and to what extent. Actually, I haven't seen anyone accuse Hillary Clinton of involvement in a few years now. There seems to be a growing consensus that child sex rings exist, corruption is involved, and something needs to be done about it. But it also gets blown out of proportion by less careful minded people. Isn't Jeffrey Epstein and "pedo island" considered to be part of QAnon? Isn't Epstein's involved with child sex trafficking generally accepted as true now?
      - seppin 6y ago
        > And I doubt QAnon conspiracy theory is as simple as "Hillary Clinton operated a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza place". > I don't know many details about QAnon, and I don't care much to research it and come to an understanding myself. Cool. > Isn't Jeffrey Epstein and "pedo island" considered to be part of QAnon? No. They falsely took credit for bringing him down, when it was journalists in the "mainstream media" (specifically one reporter for the Miami Herald named Julie Brown) that broke the story and brought him down. To be clear, they had nothing to do with his downfall.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
seppin 6y ago
Exactly. QAnon is almost exclusively a "I am not happy with my life" support group.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  A self-reinforcing one, too. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwnjx4/people-tell-us-how-qanon-destroyed-their-relationships https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwnjx4/people-tell-us-how...
- Florin_Andrei 6y ago
  Well, yes, but seems a little more militant than just that.
- Balgair 6y ago
  I think the saying goes: The Queen doesn't say she is the queen, because everyone already knows. The reverse is also true, if someone has to say they are important, then they are likely not actually important. Applying this to the QAnon 'motto' of 'Where we go one, we go all', I think you can conclude that if they have to say it, then it's not true. Most adherents are then, mostly, alone. The feeling of community and belonging that these people get is obviously missing in their lives otherwise. That they find these feelings via image macros, chat boxes, and videos speaks to the depth of loss they feel in their lives. It's not an issue of misinformation, but I think, loneliness.
  - seppin 6y ago
    > 'Where we go one, we go all' I never understood that as a moto. Right wingers are known for being hyper-individualistic, WWGOWGA seems like some quasi-socialist slogan. But you are right, there are multiple crises of poverty, loneliness and poor education in the US. The thing that really baffles me are the "Q" followers that are none of these things, and aren't American.
ColanR 6y ago
> poor education I think you're discounting the number of people involved with such conspiracies for whom that discription is not true.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Florin_Andrei 6y ago
Isn't that similar to the classic model of what causes (or used to cause in the past) religious fervor?
- xenospn 6y ago
  Yup! Humans have a limited set of triggers. This uses the same mechanism to trigger a strong emotional reaction.
therouwboat 6y ago
I agree they are dissatisfied with something missing in their lives. I have workmate who is antivaxxer, thinks mainstream media lies and that most diseases could be cured with just good nights sleep and healthy food. Yet he had all mandatory vaccinations and admitted that he would go to doctor if he ever got sick. He is 30, healthy, no kids, not very highly educated, but makes good money. Everything he is against doesn't affect his life one bit, its like hobby to him and it gets good reaction from others. His conspiracy theory articles can be debunked in few minutes and then he throws in even bigger article and he hasnt even read those, so if you keep pushing he has nothing to say.
- Florin_Andrei 6y ago
  There's usually an explanation for this, though it may not be immediately apparent. But typically the person feels like they have no control, so inventing this universe that makes sense to them allows them to retain some (fictional) control. Or they may feel worthless or low-status, and if they imagine they "know" things that most people "don't know" that would restore them some of their perceived status. Or they may completely disagree with how the world looks like and the direction where it appears to be going, so let's invent this other world that's more satisfactory. I mean, if all of the above (and similar) explanations fail, you'd just have to assume the person is not very intelligent. I'm not sure what else could possibly explain it at that point.
zbentley 6y ago
> It’s fertile ground for conspiracy theories to grow. Or religions.

by wgx 6y ago

Doctor_Fegg 6y ago

Exactly. This is how Brexit happened.

TaupeRanger 6y ago

I think that's part of it. I have also noticed that it tends to satisfy a deep desire in susceptible people for "secret knowledge". They thrive on the idea that the world is more dangerous and mysterious than it actually is, perhaps stemming from the malaise and depression that comes from those things you mentioned.

wavepruner 6y ago
I'm prone to consider "conspiracy theories" because something terrible happened to me that is adamantly denied by those in power. The terrible thing that happened to me does not feel like "secret knowledge" or a "conspiracy theory" at all. It is very real and the consequences I deal with are relevant to every minute of every day of my life. I don't feel depressed. My life is fulfilling and I find a tremendous amount of meaning in the work I do. I know many others who are prone to considering "conspiracy theories" who are the same.
- seppin 6y ago
  > I'm prone to consider "conspiracy theories" because something terrible happened to me that is adamantly denied by those in power. You seem to be confusing "people in power abuse said power and never face consequences" (true) with Hilary Clinton operated a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza place" (not true).
  - wavepruner 6y ago
    Where did I say: "people in power abuse said power and never face consequences" or "Hilary Clinton operated a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza place"? It is very misleading to use quotes like I said anything along those lines. People in power face consequences all the time. I never denied that. It just takes a long time for a reckoning to happen. Often decades, or lifetimes. And I doubt QAnon conspiracy theory is as simple as "Hillary Clinton operated a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza place". You are oversimplifying my point, turning it into a false dichotomy, and assuming the QAnon conspiracy theory is only the idea that Hillary Clinton operated a pedophile ring. My point was that depressed losers aren't the only people open to controversial theories about people in power. I don't know many details about QAnon, and I don't care much to research it and come to an understanding myself. I have much more important things to spend my time on. But I do know from random posts I've encountered by QAnon people is that there is a wide range of beliefs regarding who is involved and to what extent. Actually, I haven't seen anyone accuse Hillary Clinton of involvement in a few years now. There seems to be a growing consensus that child sex rings exist, corruption is involved, and something needs to be done about it. But it also gets blown out of proportion by less careful minded people. Isn't Jeffrey Epstein and "pedo island" considered to be part of QAnon? Isn't Epstein's involved with child sex trafficking generally accepted as true now?
    - seppin 6y ago
      > And I doubt QAnon conspiracy theory is as simple as "Hillary Clinton operated a pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza place". > I don't know many details about QAnon, and I don't care much to research it and come to an understanding myself. Cool. > Isn't Jeffrey Epstein and "pedo island" considered to be part of QAnon? No. They falsely took credit for bringing him down, when it was journalists in the "mainstream media" (specifically one reporter for the Miami Herald named Julie Brown) that broke the story and brought him down. To be clear, they had nothing to do with his downfall.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

seppin 6y ago

Exactly. QAnon is almost exclusively a "I am not happy with my life" support group.

ceejayoz 6y ago
A self-reinforcing one, too. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwnjx4/people-tell-us-how-qanon-destroyed-their-relationships https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwnjx4/people-tell-us-how...
Florin_Andrei 6y ago
Well, yes, but seems a little more militant than just that.
Balgair 6y ago
I think the saying goes: The Queen doesn't say she is the queen, because everyone already knows. The reverse is also true, if someone has to say they are important, then they are likely not actually important. Applying this to the QAnon 'motto' of 'Where we go one, we go all', I think you can conclude that if they have to say it, then it's not true. Most adherents are then, mostly, alone. The feeling of community and belonging that these people get is obviously missing in their lives otherwise. That they find these feelings via image macros, chat boxes, and videos speaks to the depth of loss they feel in their lives. It's not an issue of misinformation, but I think, loneliness.
- seppin 6y ago
  > 'Where we go one, we go all' I never understood that as a moto. Right wingers are known for being hyper-individualistic, WWGOWGA seems like some quasi-socialist slogan. But you are right, there are multiple crises of poverty, loneliness and poor education in the US. The thing that really baffles me are the "Q" followers that are none of these things, and aren't American.

ColanR 6y ago

> poor education I think you're discounting the number of people involved with such conspiracies for whom that discription is not true.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Florin_Andrei 6y ago

Isn't that similar to the classic model of what causes (or used to cause in the past) religious fervor?

xenospn 6y ago
Yup! Humans have a limited set of triggers. This uses the same mechanism to trigger a strong emotional reaction.

therouwboat 6y ago

I agree they are dissatisfied with something missing in their lives. I have workmate who is antivaxxer, thinks mainstream media lies and that most diseases could be cured with just good nights sleep and healthy food. Yet he had all mandatory vaccinations and admitted that he would go to doctor if he ever got sick. He is 30, healthy, no kids, not very highly educated, but makes good money. Everything he is against doesn't affect his life one bit, its like hobby to him and it gets good reaction from others. His conspiracy theory articles can be debunked in few minutes and then he throws in even bigger article and he hasnt even read those, so if you keep pushing he has nothing to say.

Florin_Andrei 6y ago
There's usually an explanation for this, though it may not be immediately apparent. But typically the person feels like they have no control, so inventing this universe that makes sense to them allows them to retain some (fictional) control. Or they may feel worthless or low-status, and if they imagine they "know" things that most people "don't know" that would restore them some of their perceived status. Or they may completely disagree with how the world looks like and the direction where it appears to be going, so let's invent this other world that's more satisfactory. I mean, if all of the above (and similar) explanations fail, you'd just have to assume the person is not very intelligent. I'm not sure what else could possibly explain it at that point.

zbentley 6y ago

> It’s fertile ground for conspiracy theories to grow. Or religions.