3 ms·

It's funny how things makes sense when you are under influence, but it is less usual it becomes real. I guess drugs helps you to let go and be more imaginative.

by aphroz 6y ago

It's funny how things makes sense when you are under influence, but it is less usual it becomes real. I guess drugs helps you to let go and be more imaginative. But, it does not mean you need to take LSD to have brilliant ideas.

tanepiper 6y ago
I watched this video the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbgDf4HCHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbgDf4HCHU It's Sir Roger Penrose & Dr. Stuart Hameroff talking about the physics of consciousness - for the first time I think a truly compelling idea of what consciousness is in a scientific way that could potentially be empirically measured. They mention the use of psychedelics to create more "conscious moments" - and funnily enough in this piece, Bill Atkinson talks about pockets of consciousness. I wonder if there is really an argument to say that A) We have conscious beings on Earth due to some kind of quantum effect in our space (that is we really are just the bi-product of the quantum process in our universe) and B) Psychedelics can make humans more in-tune to quantum effects that give rise to consciousness - but as to your point I agree you don't need them for brilliant ideas.
- browsergap 6y ago
  This is a great point. I think hallucinogens might "turn the dial" on our quantum consciousness and "tune you in" to different parts of the signal, possibly meaning they can "entangle" the quantum structures in our minds with persistent information structures present somewhere. Maybe they do this randomly, or perhaps each drug is "frequency locked" to some particular part of the "spectrum" (not that I think it's anything so simple as a spectrum defined by a couple of parameters like 'virbation frequency' or whatever, but...), because there are often the same qualia reported for some chemicals independent of the person or setting (like DMT, apparently everybody on that saw an entity once). Maybe the way chems affect us like this, is the same with getting into altered states without drugs. Or, to take a line from the matrix, "disrupt your input/output carrier signal" (as the red pill did).
  - msla 6y ago
    > I think hallucinogens might "turn the dial" on our quantum consciousness and "tune you in" to different parts of the signal, possibly meaning they can "entangle" the quantum structures in our minds with persistent information structures present somewhere. I'd be interested in a quantum theory where this statement made sense, to be sure. Penrose's ideas about quantum consciousness are widely challenged and not the mainstream, and his basing it on the Incompleteness Theorems is especially problematic, as those only even make sense in the context of certain kinds of formal systems. The later Orch-OR theory has been falsified, in fact: http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/3049/ http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/3049/ https://www.pnas.org/content/106/11/4219 https://www.pnas.org/content/106/11/4219
    - browsergap 6y ago
      :) Thank you for the links :P particularly 2nd one. seems very interesting. really appreciate! :P;) xx fascinating both :p ;)xxx
  - LocalH 6y ago
    I’ve smoked DMT several times, including one deep experience full of intense time loops. Never encountered any entities.
- nicoffeine 6y ago
  There are a few trillion reasons the Orch-OR Theory [1] is unpopular. If there are incredibly dense quantum structures called microtubules [2] operating at room temperature within each neuron (and in almost all living things), right now AI may be close to approximating the brainpower of organisms a little smarter than bacteria. Consider the lifecycle of a butterfly: learn how to navigate as larvae/caterpillar, learn how to identify appropriate food, flee danger, find a place to build a cocoon, perform a metamorphosis, learn to fly, instinctively navigate across a continent - all with one million neurons. All on a trickle of electricity. Meanwhile, a self-driving car with laser arrays, cameras, GPS, and a quarter rack of computer equipment can't reliably move when the options are forward, reverse, turn left, turn right. Focusing the puny brainpower of something like a ringworm at a specific problem may result in some basic (as compared to a human brain) learning ability, navigation, and pattern matching, but there's a reason the "real" breakthrough is always just around the corner. No one in AI or neurology wants to admit that the traditional model of neurons and synapses could simply be wrong. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reducti... [2] https://www.molbiolcell.org/doi/full/10.1091/mbc.e16-05-0271 https://www.molbiolcell.org/doi/full/10.1091/mbc.e16-05-0271
diggan 6y ago
The way I see it, psychedelics can be tools you can use to see things you don't normally see, but you still need to be sober afterwards to "clean up" the ideas to allow people who aren't tripping to understand what you mean. A conversation between someone on LSD with someone who is not, will often look like the one on LSD is talking non-sense. If they are both on LSD, they can usually understand each other. If the person on LSD would have gotten sober time before talking to the sober person, they could make the language and ideas more suitable for understanding. So while Hypercard was initially "invented" under the influence, if they would have kept being on LSD while developing at as, it would have been a mess.
- hippich 6y ago
  If I understand it correctly, psychedelics come with the rapid increase of tolerance wich last days. So it is very different from let's say alcohol where you can stay in the state for days. So you are somewhat forced to clean up ideas while being sober
GordonS 6y ago
Story time. I recall one afternoon I took mushrooms, when I was perhaps 15 years old. Not a huge quantity, but enough for a mild, pleasant experience. That same evening I realised that I had to write an essay for school - it wasn't like me, but I'd completely forgotten about it, and now had a single evening to write a whole essay... bah, how could I possibly do that?! I sat down, and... it just flowed. Words, sentences, paragraphs, ideas, characters, just sprang to life on the page - and it was good, really good! My mind felt amazing - like my consciousness had been expanded. I'd never felt such pure imagination and joy of knowledge before. By the end of the evening I had unquestionably the best essay I'd ever written, and about twice the target length. A week or so later when I got the results, it was a B, and I was kind of shocked. But the teacher called me back after class - he told me what I submitted was way better than A+ work, more what would be expected at university level. He also asked who wrote it, because "it obviously wasn't you" - he didn't believe my insistence that I'd written it. He couldn't prove anything, so gave it a B and strongly warned me not to "pull a stunt like this ever again". Of course, people can have great ideas and do great work without hallucinogenic drugs - that should really go without saying. But the results with such drugs can be utterly incredible - Also keep in mind the effect is not only while using the drug, but afterwards too.
- 0xdeadb00f 6y ago
  Great story. thanks for sharing!
- mudita 6y ago
  Did you ever try to reproduce this experience and experiment with writing under the of psychedelics?
  - GordonS 6y ago
    Well, there is another story there. Just some weeks later, I took mushrooms again - but this time we took way, way more. Hundreds of them. Shortly after the effects started coming on, I had a stupid argument with my friend and I was left alone for a while feeling bad. It all went down hill from there. I was disorientated and confused, lost all depth perception, and was seeing small monsters all over the place - I'd turn round and see one huddled in a corner, staring at me like it was planning an attack, then it was gone and I'd see another elsewhere. I was absolutely terrified; the whole experience was like the "essence" of terror. I seem to recall that in total the effects lasted for something like 12 hours. For the last few I was huddled up on a bed, shaking uncontrollably, thinking it would never end. Right at the end, another friend sat with me and talked about something terrible that had happened to her, getting it of her chest, perhaps thinking I wouldn't remember afterwards. I actually became quite lucid then, and felt such empathy and human understanding that I haven't felt before (some people think I'm autistic, so in retrospect it was particularly meaningful!). Anyway, that was the last time I ever took mushrooms, or any hallucinogen. Parts of the experience seem imprinted in my mind forever, and 20+ years on I'd still be really wary of taking hallucinogens again. I think hallucinogens can be extremely powerful, but must be used with care, and in the proper setting. I learned that the hard way.
bookofjoe 6y ago
I recall reading that once, when the Beatles took LSD, they wrote some songs while tripping that turned out to be complete garbage.

by aphroz 6y ago

tanepiper 6y ago

I watched this video the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbgDf4HCHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbgDf4HCHU It's Sir Roger Penrose & Dr. Stuart Hameroff talking about the physics of consciousness - for the first time I think a truly compelling idea of what consciousness is in a scientific way that could potentially be empirically measured. They mention the use of psychedelics to create more "conscious moments" - and funnily enough in this piece, Bill Atkinson talks about pockets of consciousness. I wonder if there is really an argument to say that A) We have conscious beings on Earth due to some kind of quantum effect in our space (that is we really are just the bi-product of the quantum process in our universe) and B) Psychedelics can make humans more in-tune to quantum effects that give rise to consciousness - but as to your point I agree you don't need them for brilliant ideas.

browsergap 6y ago
This is a great point. I think hallucinogens might "turn the dial" on our quantum consciousness and "tune you in" to different parts of the signal, possibly meaning they can "entangle" the quantum structures in our minds with persistent information structures present somewhere. Maybe they do this randomly, or perhaps each drug is "frequency locked" to some particular part of the "spectrum" (not that I think it's anything so simple as a spectrum defined by a couple of parameters like 'virbation frequency' or whatever, but...), because there are often the same qualia reported for some chemicals independent of the person or setting (like DMT, apparently everybody on that saw an entity once). Maybe the way chems affect us like this, is the same with getting into altered states without drugs. Or, to take a line from the matrix, "disrupt your input/output carrier signal" (as the red pill did).
- msla 6y ago
  > I think hallucinogens might "turn the dial" on our quantum consciousness and "tune you in" to different parts of the signal, possibly meaning they can "entangle" the quantum structures in our minds with persistent information structures present somewhere. I'd be interested in a quantum theory where this statement made sense, to be sure. Penrose's ideas about quantum consciousness are widely challenged and not the mainstream, and his basing it on the Incompleteness Theorems is especially problematic, as those only even make sense in the context of certain kinds of formal systems. The later Orch-OR theory has been falsified, in fact: http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/3049/ http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/3049/ https://www.pnas.org/content/106/11/4219 https://www.pnas.org/content/106/11/4219
  - browsergap 6y ago
    :) Thank you for the links :P particularly 2nd one. seems very interesting. really appreciate! :P;) xx fascinating both :p ;)xxx
- LocalH 6y ago
  I’ve smoked DMT several times, including one deep experience full of intense time loops. Never encountered any entities.
nicoffeine 6y ago
There are a few trillion reasons the Orch-OR Theory [1] is unpopular. If there are incredibly dense quantum structures called microtubules [2] operating at room temperature within each neuron (and in almost all living things), right now AI may be close to approximating the brainpower of organisms a little smarter than bacteria. Consider the lifecycle of a butterfly: learn how to navigate as larvae/caterpillar, learn how to identify appropriate food, flee danger, find a place to build a cocoon, perform a metamorphosis, learn to fly, instinctively navigate across a continent - all with one million neurons. All on a trickle of electricity. Meanwhile, a self-driving car with laser arrays, cameras, GPS, and a quarter rack of computer equipment can't reliably move when the options are forward, reverse, turn left, turn right. Focusing the puny brainpower of something like a ringworm at a specific problem may result in some basic (as compared to a human brain) learning ability, navigation, and pattern matching, but there's a reason the "real" breakthrough is always just around the corner. No one in AI or neurology wants to admit that the traditional model of neurons and synapses could simply be wrong. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reducti... [2] https://www.molbiolcell.org/doi/full/10.1091/mbc.e16-05-0271 https://www.molbiolcell.org/doi/full/10.1091/mbc.e16-05-0271

diggan 6y ago

The way I see it, psychedelics can be tools you can use to see things you don't normally see, but you still need to be sober afterwards to "clean up" the ideas to allow people who aren't tripping to understand what you mean. A conversation between someone on LSD with someone who is not, will often look like the one on LSD is talking non-sense. If they are both on LSD, they can usually understand each other. If the person on LSD would have gotten sober time before talking to the sober person, they could make the language and ideas more suitable for understanding. So while Hypercard was initially "invented" under the influence, if they would have kept being on LSD while developing at as, it would have been a mess.

hippich 6y ago
If I understand it correctly, psychedelics come with the rapid increase of tolerance wich last days. So it is very different from let's say alcohol where you can stay in the state for days. So you are somewhat forced to clean up ideas while being sober

GordonS 6y ago

Story time. I recall one afternoon I took mushrooms, when I was perhaps 15 years old. Not a huge quantity, but enough for a mild, pleasant experience. That same evening I realised that I had to write an essay for school - it wasn't like me, but I'd completely forgotten about it, and now had a single evening to write a whole essay... bah, how could I possibly do that?! I sat down, and... it just flowed. Words, sentences, paragraphs, ideas, characters, just sprang to life on the page - and it was good, really good! My mind felt amazing - like my consciousness had been expanded. I'd never felt such pure imagination and joy of knowledge before. By the end of the evening I had unquestionably the best essay I'd ever written, and about twice the target length. A week or so later when I got the results, it was a B, and I was kind of shocked. But the teacher called me back after class - he told me what I submitted was way better than A+ work, more what would be expected at university level. He also asked who wrote it, because "it obviously wasn't you" - he didn't believe my insistence that I'd written it. He couldn't prove anything, so gave it a B and strongly warned me not to "pull a stunt like this ever again". Of course, people can have great ideas and do great work without hallucinogenic drugs - that should really go without saying. But the results with such drugs can be utterly incredible - Also keep in mind the effect is not only while using the drug, but afterwards too.

0xdeadb00f 6y ago
Great story. thanks for sharing!
mudita 6y ago
Did you ever try to reproduce this experience and experiment with writing under the of psychedelics?
- GordonS 6y ago
  Well, there is another story there. Just some weeks later, I took mushrooms again - but this time we took way, way more. Hundreds of them. Shortly after the effects started coming on, I had a stupid argument with my friend and I was left alone for a while feeling bad. It all went down hill from there. I was disorientated and confused, lost all depth perception, and was seeing small monsters all over the place - I'd turn round and see one huddled in a corner, staring at me like it was planning an attack, then it was gone and I'd see another elsewhere. I was absolutely terrified; the whole experience was like the "essence" of terror. I seem to recall that in total the effects lasted for something like 12 hours. For the last few I was huddled up on a bed, shaking uncontrollably, thinking it would never end. Right at the end, another friend sat with me and talked about something terrible that had happened to her, getting it of her chest, perhaps thinking I wouldn't remember afterwards. I actually became quite lucid then, and felt such empathy and human understanding that I haven't felt before (some people think I'm autistic, so in retrospect it was particularly meaningful!). Anyway, that was the last time I ever took mushrooms, or any hallucinogen. Parts of the experience seem imprinted in my mind forever, and 20+ years on I'd still be really wary of taking hallucinogens again. I think hallucinogens can be extremely powerful, but must be used with care, and in the proper setting. I learned that the hard way.

bookofjoe 6y ago

I recall reading that once, when the Beatles took LSD, they wrote some songs while tripping that turned out to be complete garbage.