6 ms·

The Truth about Vaccines

19 points by shubhamjain 6y ago

Fjolsvith 6y ago
Fun fact: You cannot get emergency FDA approval for a vaccine (Remdesivir) if another effective drug exists (HCQ).
- leoh 6y ago
  >Fun fact: You cannot get emergency FDA approval for a vaccine (Remdesivir) if another effective drug exists (HCQ). Remdesivir is not a vaccine, it is an anti-viral, which is not the same thing. Moreover, the FDA is not going to block emergency approval for a vaccine with radically greater efficacy than an approved medicine used in an off-label manner. There are no approved drugs for COVID-19. There drugs approved for other illnesses that are used in an _off-label_ manner for COVI-19.
- djaque 6y ago
  Firstly, Remdesivir isn't a vaccine. Second, there is no magic cure. I just took another look at controlled trials of OH-Chloroquine and the latest science says its effects on patient outcomes are small when they exist at all.
  - casefields 6y ago
    OP was taking the NYT method such as in this article about a possible vaccine: >The goal is to prevent haphazard or inequitable distribution of a treatment or vaccine when there isn’t enough to go around. Such a system has already been used in allocations of remdesivir, the first drug shown to be effective against the coronavirus. >“This is all very new,” said Dr. Douglas White, an ethicist and vice chairman of the department of critical medicine at the University of Pittsburgh, which began using a weighted lottery last month to distribute remdesivir. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/health/coronavirus-vaccine-allocation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/health/coronavirus-vaccin... It's quite easy to see how the jump to vaccine can be made when they really meant treatment.
sildur 6y ago
> as we already have during this pandemic in the case of facemasks, first advising that they were useless and maybe even dangerous (which may or may not have been a “noble lie” to preserve mask stocks for healthcare workers) That “noble lie” has utterly crushed confidence in authorities everywhere. I hope that the long lasting fallout caused by the lie was worth it.
wavepruner 6y ago
Posting this now before finishing the article to be an early poster. (see edit below for my comments after finishing the article) The article refers to missteps and errors doctors have made concerning vaccinations. One misstep/error that is concerning to me is the use of thimerosal as a preservative/adjuvant. Around 1999, the FDA began to pressure manufacturers to remove thimerosal from all childhood vaccines due to safety concerns. The following link is a great summary why that presents pro/con perspectives. Thimerosal is no longer used in childhood vaccines, and has been largely replaced by aluminum-based adjuvants. https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/thimerosal-vaccines-questions-and-answers https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/thimer... In 2004, FDA official William Egan stated that no clinical trial had been done to evaluate the safety of thimerosal, a preservative/adjuvant that was commonly used in vaccinations. Except for a poorly run 1930 study. See the following link for the testimony. It's from an anti-vax youtube channel, but the testimony is real and uncut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBRwOohhHuA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBRwOohhHuA A few years ago, after about 15 years of studying biochemistry and personal experimentation (including obtaining an environmental engineering degree), I identified the root cause of my crippling illness that took away my ability to walk. Chronic mercury toxicity. Thimerosal contains mercury. Maybe I got the mercury somewhere else, but I have no other known exposures. Never ate much fish, and my symptoms started long before I ever ate any. I have reversed the course of my illness using a medication that specifically binds to mercury and facilitates easier excretion from the body. I've been using this therapy for 3 years now with consistent improvement. If it was a placebo effect it would not produce consistent results for such a long period of time. For those curious, the medication I'm using is emeramide. It is currently going through the FDA approval process for the treatment of mercury toxicity, and looks like it will be approved within 10 years. Edit: After finishing the article I'd like to address two points: (1) I see that the author discussed the FDA's removal of thimerosal. They point out how experts "talked out of both sides of their mouths", claiming thimerosal was safe, but insisted it be removed as expeditiously as possible. Toxicity is very very complex science. During my 4 years as an environmental engineer I noticed a huge amount of politicking around toxicity issues because it's so hard to prove if some compound is safe or not. My interpretation of the expert's behavior regarding thimerosal is that they became so uncomfortable with the unproven safety profile of the compound that they pushed for it's removal, while simultaneously saying it was fine in order to cover their asses. It's career suicide to admit you supported the use of a compound all the while insisting it was safe, only to flip-flop and say it was dangerous all along. So the experts do the right thing, banning the compound, while covering their asses. I saw this phenomenon over and over while working in pollution remediation. (2) The author spends considerable time discrediting Wakefield's MMR study. MMR never contained thimerosal, so discussion of that study with respect to thimerosal's safety is not applicable. Also, Wakefield's study was ONE study, and it's so strange how the pro-vax movement keeps talking about how terrible it was like it is still relevant. There have been hundreds if not thousands of other studies much more worthy of discussion. The healthcare industry has published numerous fraudulent studies from all sorts of perspectives. It's not a phenomenon only associated with people who question vaccine safety. See Merck's fraudulent study demonstrating Vioxx's safety. They just removed 3 participants so the numbers looked good.

19 points by shubhamjain 6y ago

Fjolsvith 6y ago

Fun fact: You cannot get emergency FDA approval for a vaccine (Remdesivir) if another effective drug exists (HCQ).

leoh 6y ago
>Fun fact: You cannot get emergency FDA approval for a vaccine (Remdesivir) if another effective drug exists (HCQ). Remdesivir is not a vaccine, it is an anti-viral, which is not the same thing. Moreover, the FDA is not going to block emergency approval for a vaccine with radically greater efficacy than an approved medicine used in an off-label manner. There are no approved drugs for COVID-19. There drugs approved for other illnesses that are used in an _off-label_ manner for COVI-19.
djaque 6y ago
Firstly, Remdesivir isn't a vaccine. Second, there is no magic cure. I just took another look at controlled trials of OH-Chloroquine and the latest science says its effects on patient outcomes are small when they exist at all.
- casefields 6y ago
  OP was taking the NYT method such as in this article about a possible vaccine: >The goal is to prevent haphazard or inequitable distribution of a treatment or vaccine when there isn’t enough to go around. Such a system has already been used in allocations of remdesivir, the first drug shown to be effective against the coronavirus. >“This is all very new,” said Dr. Douglas White, an ethicist and vice chairman of the department of critical medicine at the University of Pittsburgh, which began using a weighted lottery last month to distribute remdesivir. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/health/coronavirus-vaccine-allocation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/health/coronavirus-vaccin... It's quite easy to see how the jump to vaccine can be made when they really meant treatment.

sildur 6y ago

> as we already have during this pandemic in the case of facemasks, first advising that they were useless and maybe even dangerous (which may or may not have been a “noble lie” to preserve mask stocks for healthcare workers) That “noble lie” has utterly crushed confidence in authorities everywhere. I hope that the long lasting fallout caused by the lie was worth it.

wavepruner 6y ago

Posting this now before finishing the article to be an early poster. (see edit below for my comments after finishing the article) The article refers to missteps and errors doctors have made concerning vaccinations. One misstep/error that is concerning to me is the use of thimerosal as a preservative/adjuvant. Around 1999, the FDA began to pressure manufacturers to remove thimerosal from all childhood vaccines due to safety concerns. The following link is a great summary why that presents pro/con perspectives. Thimerosal is no longer used in childhood vaccines, and has been largely replaced by aluminum-based adjuvants. https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/thimerosal-vaccines-questions-and-answers https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/thimer... In 2004, FDA official William Egan stated that no clinical trial had been done to evaluate the safety of thimerosal, a preservative/adjuvant that was commonly used in vaccinations. Except for a poorly run 1930 study. See the following link for the testimony. It's from an anti-vax youtube channel, but the testimony is real and uncut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBRwOohhHuA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBRwOohhHuA A few years ago, after about 15 years of studying biochemistry and personal experimentation (including obtaining an environmental engineering degree), I identified the root cause of my crippling illness that took away my ability to walk. Chronic mercury toxicity. Thimerosal contains mercury. Maybe I got the mercury somewhere else, but I have no other known exposures. Never ate much fish, and my symptoms started long before I ever ate any. I have reversed the course of my illness using a medication that specifically binds to mercury and facilitates easier excretion from the body. I've been using this therapy for 3 years now with consistent improvement. If it was a placebo effect it would not produce consistent results for such a long period of time. For those curious, the medication I'm using is emeramide. It is currently going through the FDA approval process for the treatment of mercury toxicity, and looks like it will be approved within 10 years. Edit: After finishing the article I'd like to address two points: (1) I see that the author discussed the FDA's removal of thimerosal. They point out how experts "talked out of both sides of their mouths", claiming thimerosal was safe, but insisted it be removed as expeditiously as possible. Toxicity is very very complex science. During my 4 years as an environmental engineer I noticed a huge amount of politicking around toxicity issues because it's so hard to prove if some compound is safe or not. My interpretation of the expert's behavior regarding thimerosal is that they became so uncomfortable with the unproven safety profile of the compound that they pushed for it's removal, while simultaneously saying it was fine in order to cover their asses. It's career suicide to admit you supported the use of a compound all the while insisting it was safe, only to flip-flop and say it was dangerous all along. So the experts do the right thing, banning the compound, while covering their asses. I saw this phenomenon over and over while working in pollution remediation. (2) The author spends considerable time discrediting Wakefield's MMR study. MMR never contained thimerosal, so discussion of that study with respect to thimerosal's safety is not applicable. Also, Wakefield's study was ONE study, and it's so strange how the pro-vax movement keeps talking about how terrible it was like it is still relevant. There have been hundreds if not thousands of other studies much more worthy of discussion. The healthcare industry has published numerous fraudulent studies from all sorts of perspectives. It's not a phenomenon only associated with people who question vaccine safety. See Merck's fraudulent study demonstrating Vioxx's safety. They just removed 3 participants so the numbers looked good.