4 ms·

I'd start with the fact that it's 21 years later, and that the 'matrix is gender binary and agents are transphobes' makes zero sense to anyone who has seen the

by axaxs 6y ago

I'd start with the fact that it's 21 years later, and that the 'matrix is gender binary and agents are transphobes' makes zero sense to anyone who has seen the movie. Unless trans folk can slow time to dodge bullets, which would make me rethink my own gender I guess.

bawolff 6y ago
The switch thing is not new. Here is a source from 2014 https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Switch?oldid=27170 https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Switch?oldid=27170 The agents are a stand in for authority, and cultural normativity. They literally kill anyone who refuses to follow the rules of the matrix. Its very easy to to see this as a stand in for a society that refuses to accept people who are different.
- axaxs 6y ago
  That's still 15 years. Why not say, 2 or 3? This reminds me of a 'Han shot second' type thing. There's a million examples of creators lying after the fact. And if that was the real message, should not the 'real world' feel more beautiful and free than dystopian and depressing? I'm not trying to discredit the author as a person, trans people, or the ideals..just the movie.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    It was the first thing i could find in google. I mean wikia didnt even exist as a company in 1999. > And if that was the real message, should not the 'real world' feel more beautiful and free than dystopian and depressing? On the contrary, i think that supports the message. I don't know what its like to be trans, but i'm pretty sure its not all rainbows and butterfly's. The characters in the matrix decide it is better to live as their authentic free self as opposed to being in the gilded cage of the matrix. I think that is a great metaphor for transitioning. > There's a million examples of creators lying after the fact. Fwiw, i do believe that a work should be considered separate from authorial intent, especially post-hoc authortorial intent. In this case, i think the work supports what the creators say, and its much more compelling than say harry potter where there is very little support in the text for the things jk rowling said later.
- dmarchand90 6y ago
  Just the name makes sense: switch, i.e., switching genders. It's cool because it both literally works and is a kind of CS pun
jachee 6y ago
You should look up what "allegory" means.
- axaxs 6y ago
  Oh right. I liked how 'Up' was really about pedo rights the whole time. Married man never has fun or takes his wife anywhere because he's depressed. She dies, he meets a special boy, and they see the world together. Really beautiful story.
  - jachee 6y ago
    The difference is that you're not the creator of Up. This isn't an arbitrary ex post facto ret-con. This is someone finally feeling comfortable enough with who they were to tell the actual meaning behind their creation. Jaded, insensitive curmudgeory doesn't make you a better person, you know. If you're lucky enough to know who you are, and to be able to express that identity without fear of harm, oppression or ostracism, then you could at least have the common courtesy to respect someone who—until recently—couldn't do so.
    - axaxs 6y ago
      As you've shown, apparently I can't express myself without being insulted. So where does that leave us?
      - jachee 6y ago
        If being told to have some respect for others is insulting to you, then we're at an impasse.
AstralStorm 6y ago
Sure, which is why the word of authors undergoing transition at the time is worthless, and all the other clues. /s It makes 100% sense to anyone who has seen the original screenplay floating on the internet since forever, which has more detail. Why do you think there's a character that is a different gender in and out of the Matrix? (Switch.) It's not typical even in cyberpunk genre. Why put in the doubts about being the one, or the pill rather than some other references? Why put the woman in the red dress in the movie at all and make that a philosophical point? Why say that general people (not unplugged) would defend the matrix when it is only agents attacking? Why did the authors self-insert in the movie in a subtle rather than overt way? (Scene with cleaning windows.) A full blown blockbuster directly about transitioning would be a literal box office flop back then, and even now. Imagine that. At the time I watched the thing I believed the story to be about coming out. Believed many of the references to be gay culture. That was back in about 2000. It is actually completely clear now even with author's stamp on it.
- axaxs 6y ago
  The idea of a gender switch between online and real life has been a meme since at least the early 90s. 18/F/Cali anyone? I don't understand the pill reference, other than that they behave diffently as medicines. The woman in a red dress is...a woman in a red dress. Please elaborate. I'm willing to be proven wrong here, I didn't even particularly like the movie, I just feel like the connections are rather vague. It reminds me of a time in elementary school I won some award for a drawing I did because of my use of limited colors to express something. Truth is I was just lazy and liked red and black, but people see what they want. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. To express my own take, it was more about government, society, and the inevitable end we would come to some day as resources constrain. To say that's wrong and it's about the individual (neo) feels wrong, to me. Edit to add - One of the great things about works is people being able to take their own meaning away from things. Whether it's my view of societal collapse, a gay man's view of a person coming out, or a trans person's view of being trans, I like to think nobody is wrong. When an author then boxes it in after the fact with such vague references feels like an affront to the work.
  - 6y ago
dragonwriter 6y ago
> I'd start with the fact that it's 21 years later, and that the 'matrix is gender binary and agents are transphobes' makes zero sense to anyone who has seen the movie. Makes sense to me, and I saw the movie. In fact, it validates that a lot of casual connections I saw in the film when it first came out (and throughout the trilogy) were intentional, and I'm a cisgender heterosexual Catholic that's not super prone to seeing LGBT themes everywhere. Of course, I also got the “humans are processors, not energy sources” thing before reading that it was the Wachowskis intent, and the dialog about “batteries” was added at the studios insistence after test audiences found the concept confusing (but it's also clear that they didn't do anything much with the power sources thing but dialog from an unreliable narrator, and people-as-processors is more consistent with the presentation of pretty much everything in the film, and the whole trilogy.) > Unless trans folk can slow time to dodge bullets, which would make me rethink my own gender I guess. Metaphor. It's a thing distinct from simple literal presentation.

by axaxs 6y ago

bawolff 6y ago

The switch thing is not new. Here is a source from 2014 https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Switch?oldid=27170 https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Switch?oldid=27170 The agents are a stand in for authority, and cultural normativity. They literally kill anyone who refuses to follow the rules of the matrix. Its very easy to to see this as a stand in for a society that refuses to accept people who are different.

axaxs 6y ago
That's still 15 years. Why not say, 2 or 3? This reminds me of a 'Han shot second' type thing. There's a million examples of creators lying after the fact. And if that was the real message, should not the 'real world' feel more beautiful and free than dystopian and depressing? I'm not trying to discredit the author as a person, trans people, or the ideals..just the movie.
- bawolff 6y ago
  It was the first thing i could find in google. I mean wikia didnt even exist as a company in 1999. > And if that was the real message, should not the 'real world' feel more beautiful and free than dystopian and depressing? On the contrary, i think that supports the message. I don't know what its like to be trans, but i'm pretty sure its not all rainbows and butterfly's. The characters in the matrix decide it is better to live as their authentic free self as opposed to being in the gilded cage of the matrix. I think that is a great metaphor for transitioning. > There's a million examples of creators lying after the fact. Fwiw, i do believe that a work should be considered separate from authorial intent, especially post-hoc authortorial intent. In this case, i think the work supports what the creators say, and its much more compelling than say harry potter where there is very little support in the text for the things jk rowling said later.
dmarchand90 6y ago
Just the name makes sense: switch, i.e., switching genders. It's cool because it both literally works and is a kind of CS pun

jachee 6y ago

You should look up what "allegory" means.

axaxs 6y ago
Oh right. I liked how 'Up' was really about pedo rights the whole time. Married man never has fun or takes his wife anywhere because he's depressed. She dies, he meets a special boy, and they see the world together. Really beautiful story.
- jachee 6y ago
  The difference is that you're not the creator of Up. This isn't an arbitrary ex post facto ret-con. This is someone finally feeling comfortable enough with who they were to tell the actual meaning behind their creation. Jaded, insensitive curmudgeory doesn't make you a better person, you know. If you're lucky enough to know who you are, and to be able to express that identity without fear of harm, oppression or ostracism, then you could at least have the common courtesy to respect someone who—until recently—couldn't do so.
  - axaxs 6y ago
    As you've shown, apparently I can't express myself without being insulted. So where does that leave us?
    - jachee 6y ago
      If being told to have some respect for others is insulting to you, then we're at an impasse.

AstralStorm 6y ago

Sure, which is why the word of authors undergoing transition at the time is worthless, and all the other clues. /s It makes 100% sense to anyone who has seen the original screenplay floating on the internet since forever, which has more detail. Why do you think there's a character that is a different gender in and out of the Matrix? (Switch.) It's not typical even in cyberpunk genre. Why put in the doubts about being the one, or the pill rather than some other references? Why put the woman in the red dress in the movie at all and make that a philosophical point? Why say that general people (not unplugged) would defend the matrix when it is only agents attacking? Why did the authors self-insert in the movie in a subtle rather than overt way? (Scene with cleaning windows.) A full blown blockbuster directly about transitioning would be a literal box office flop back then, and even now. Imagine that. At the time I watched the thing I believed the story to be about coming out. Believed many of the references to be gay culture. That was back in about 2000. It is actually completely clear now even with author's stamp on it.

axaxs 6y ago
The idea of a gender switch between online and real life has been a meme since at least the early 90s. 18/F/Cali anyone? I don't understand the pill reference, other than that they behave diffently as medicines. The woman in a red dress is...a woman in a red dress. Please elaborate. I'm willing to be proven wrong here, I didn't even particularly like the movie, I just feel like the connections are rather vague. It reminds me of a time in elementary school I won some award for a drawing I did because of my use of limited colors to express something. Truth is I was just lazy and liked red and black, but people see what they want. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. To express my own take, it was more about government, society, and the inevitable end we would come to some day as resources constrain. To say that's wrong and it's about the individual (neo) feels wrong, to me. Edit to add - One of the great things about works is people being able to take their own meaning away from things. Whether it's my view of societal collapse, a gay man's view of a person coming out, or a trans person's view of being trans, I like to think nobody is wrong. When an author then boxes it in after the fact with such vague references feels like an affront to the work.
- 6y ago

dragonwriter 6y ago

> I'd start with the fact that it's 21 years later, and that the 'matrix is gender binary and agents are transphobes' makes zero sense to anyone who has seen the movie. Makes sense to me, and I saw the movie. In fact, it validates that a lot of casual connections I saw in the film when it first came out (and throughout the trilogy) were intentional, and I'm a cisgender heterosexual Catholic that's not super prone to seeing LGBT themes everywhere. Of course, I also got the “humans are processors, not energy sources” thing before reading that it was the Wachowskis intent, and the dialog about “batteries” was added at the studios insistence after test audiences found the concept confusing (but it's also clear that they didn't do anything much with the power sources thing but dialog from an unreliable narrator, and people-as-processors is more consistent with the presentation of pretty much everything in the film, and the whole trilogy.) > Unless trans folk can slow time to dodge bullets, which would make me rethink my own gender I guess. Metaphor. It's a thing distinct from simple literal presentation.