4 ms·

The Carlos Ghosn case highlights some of the points you raise about the arbitrariness and closed-box nature of Japanese nativism. I have worked for a Japanese

by sn41 6y ago

The Carlos Ghosn case highlights some of the points you raise about the arbitrariness and closed-box nature of Japanese nativism. I have worked for a Japanese client (big firm, I will not name them). I think it is a miracle that Japanese innovate at all. Their hierarchies are extra rigid, and promotions are more or less dependent on seniority. It was difficult to find any tech manager who was not around 60 years old. Peer-to-peer email from our firm to Japanese engineers was strictly forbidden. Except for the money involved, it was like a humorous game of Chinese whispers - a perfectly legitimate technical point raised will come back as completely illogical gibberish because it was been distorted by layers of management in between. Engineers at my (Indian) firm in 2001 were saying that Sony's days are numbered, and Samsung will eat their lunch. I refused to believe it since South Korea had just gone through a major crisis. 20 years later, it is patently clear that they were understating the trend. The often deserving worship of Japanese culture that many indulge in, leads to vast blind spots about Japan's cultural disadvantages.

unabst 6y ago
Innovation happens at the individual level, and to that end, the Japanese are incredibly innovative. The person must then fight the hierarchies which farms the innovations from individuals who are undercompensated for their miraculous work. Same with the incredible craftsmen and artists. But if the hierarchy is bad, everyone loses. The engineer would often then defect and seek a meritocracy where they are valued by their work and not seniority. A quick lookup for the Flash inventor backs this. Fujio Masuoka is now CTO of a company in Singapore. Shuji Nakamura, the inventory of the blue LED is the other primary example. He is now professor of Materials at the University of California, Santa Barbara, with 208 US patents and a Nobel prize. He was in the news a lot, and stirred up much needed debate in Japan regarding who owns the work of an employee. But one counter example is Nintendo. Shigeru Miyamoto is the genius behind Super Mario, and him and his small team are responsible for so much of their hierarchy's success. Nintendo stands tall to this day. Sony is a mixed bag, but their gaming division is still winning. Korea is actually known to be incredibly similar to Japan, and according to one theory the only reason why Korea outpaced Japan is because the Japanese were too busy addicted to Pachinko. That may sound absurd, but not if you've seen how ubiquitous Pachinko is, and it's pure gambling with all the dangers of addiction and lives in shambles. Ironically, 80% of the parlors are owned by Japanese Koreans.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- lovemenot 6y ago
  >>80% of the parlors are owned by Japanese Koreans Especially those with longstanding connections to the North.
- jbay808 6y ago
  I know a lot of very innovative and entrepreneurial Japanese people, both within and outside of big companies. Outside of big companies, Japan's risk-averse system makes it very difficult for them to pursue ambitious tech projects. They have to fight much harder to get financing and also to work with suppliers that are more used to dealing with corporate partners. So the ones that insist on starting a business often go into lower risk but still rewarding sectors. Within companies, it really depends. As you point out, Nintendo is a good example of a company that is actually averse to not taking risks, and doesn't get humbled by failure. They insist on reinventing themselves and trying crazy things even when they'd probably do just fine sticking to something easy and proven. Their senior leadership drives that. They're far from the only company like that in Japan, but one of the few in tech. Japan's big slow companies are good at the kind of innovation that takes decades of slow, continuous refinement and constant long-term funding rather than sudden pivots and breakthroughs. Metallurgy and materials science, chemistry, and precision engineering are fields where those big heirarchies have done well for themselves.
  - unabst 6y ago
    Except sudden pivots and breakthroughs are what made Sony and Toyota and Nintendo and what still drive them. Mario, the Walkman, the Corolla. More recently, the Switch, PlayStation, and Prius. All breakthroughs with exciting beginnings resulting in massively popular and lucrative products. Nintendo trusts the innovators who insist on innovation. I would love to believe this is the winning formula, and maybe many Japanese companies do, but the problem with that is when the innovators are wrong. How often does a researcher invent exactly what the market needs? So in between hits, the hierarchies must figure ways to feed themselves. And some self destruct through corruption (Toshiba) and internal conflict (Nissan). Some get bailed out (Sharp, JAL). Sony's gaming division has been bailing out their other businesses. In the case of Xperia, the innovation and product is there, but Sony miserably failed at marketing and being competitive in the US core market. Sony marketing is legendary in Japan, but they have never successfully translated that magic to the US. In Japan, the Xperia is killing it. https://onlineshop.smt.docomo.ne.jp/ranking/index.html?color=1 https://onlineshop.smt.docomo.ne.jp/ranking/index.html?color...
wisty 6y ago
As I understand it, the "promotion through seniority" thing isn't always a huge issue. It's basically a way to create less risk and stress for employees. As long as they put in the work (and yeah, they're ALL expected to work) they get job security and get promoted in a predictable way. If they show that they're actually good at their jobs, they don't get more (or less!) promotions, they just get to work on the more interesting projects and are given more free reign. Of course, I expect this would only be true in the companies that are not sinking. And it's not like the USA doesn't have its share of former tech giants getting torn apart by more competent competitors (anyone remember Yahoo? HP? Is IBM on the upswing or downswing right now?).
mindentropy 6y ago
Isn't this a problem with policies rather than cultural? If it was cultural then there wouldn't be such inventions in the first place and legendary bike and car companies. What I feel is this is because policy created which reduces competition and increases monopoly. It is hard to find companies now which can be started with like Soichiro Honda or like Akio Morita and Masaru Ibuka now. This trend is going on everywhere.
- boomlinde 6y ago
  It makes sense as a cultural problem from the perspective that workplace culture is an aspect of culture overall. Policies don't spawn in a vacuum separate from culture, but reflect the values of those that create them.

by sn41 6y ago

unabst 6y ago

Innovation happens at the individual level, and to that end, the Japanese are incredibly innovative. The person must then fight the hierarchies which farms the innovations from individuals who are undercompensated for their miraculous work. Same with the incredible craftsmen and artists. But if the hierarchy is bad, everyone loses. The engineer would often then defect and seek a meritocracy where they are valued by their work and not seniority. A quick lookup for the Flash inventor backs this. Fujio Masuoka is now CTO of a company in Singapore. Shuji Nakamura, the inventory of the blue LED is the other primary example. He is now professor of Materials at the University of California, Santa Barbara, with 208 US patents and a Nobel prize. He was in the news a lot, and stirred up much needed debate in Japan regarding who owns the work of an employee. But one counter example is Nintendo. Shigeru Miyamoto is the genius behind Super Mario, and him and his small team are responsible for so much of their hierarchy's success. Nintendo stands tall to this day. Sony is a mixed bag, but their gaming division is still winning. Korea is actually known to be incredibly similar to Japan, and according to one theory the only reason why Korea outpaced Japan is because the Japanese were too busy addicted to Pachinko. That may sound absurd, but not if you've seen how ubiquitous Pachinko is, and it's pure gambling with all the dangers of addiction and lives in shambles. Ironically, 80% of the parlors are owned by Japanese Koreans.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lovemenot 6y ago
>>80% of the parlors are owned by Japanese Koreans Especially those with longstanding connections to the North.
jbay808 6y ago
I know a lot of very innovative and entrepreneurial Japanese people, both within and outside of big companies. Outside of big companies, Japan's risk-averse system makes it very difficult for them to pursue ambitious tech projects. They have to fight much harder to get financing and also to work with suppliers that are more used to dealing with corporate partners. So the ones that insist on starting a business often go into lower risk but still rewarding sectors. Within companies, it really depends. As you point out, Nintendo is a good example of a company that is actually averse to not taking risks, and doesn't get humbled by failure. They insist on reinventing themselves and trying crazy things even when they'd probably do just fine sticking to something easy and proven. Their senior leadership drives that. They're far from the only company like that in Japan, but one of the few in tech. Japan's big slow companies are good at the kind of innovation that takes decades of slow, continuous refinement and constant long-term funding rather than sudden pivots and breakthroughs. Metallurgy and materials science, chemistry, and precision engineering are fields where those big heirarchies have done well for themselves.
- unabst 6y ago
  Except sudden pivots and breakthroughs are what made Sony and Toyota and Nintendo and what still drive them. Mario, the Walkman, the Corolla. More recently, the Switch, PlayStation, and Prius. All breakthroughs with exciting beginnings resulting in massively popular and lucrative products. Nintendo trusts the innovators who insist on innovation. I would love to believe this is the winning formula, and maybe many Japanese companies do, but the problem with that is when the innovators are wrong. How often does a researcher invent exactly what the market needs? So in between hits, the hierarchies must figure ways to feed themselves. And some self destruct through corruption (Toshiba) and internal conflict (Nissan). Some get bailed out (Sharp, JAL). Sony's gaming division has been bailing out their other businesses. In the case of Xperia, the innovation and product is there, but Sony miserably failed at marketing and being competitive in the US core market. Sony marketing is legendary in Japan, but they have never successfully translated that magic to the US. In Japan, the Xperia is killing it. https://onlineshop.smt.docomo.ne.jp/ranking/index.html?color=1 https://onlineshop.smt.docomo.ne.jp/ranking/index.html?color...

wisty 6y ago

As I understand it, the "promotion through seniority" thing isn't always a huge issue. It's basically a way to create less risk and stress for employees. As long as they put in the work (and yeah, they're ALL expected to work) they get job security and get promoted in a predictable way. If they show that they're actually good at their jobs, they don't get more (or less!) promotions, they just get to work on the more interesting projects and are given more free reign. Of course, I expect this would only be true in the companies that are not sinking. And it's not like the USA doesn't have its share of former tech giants getting torn apart by more competent competitors (anyone remember Yahoo? HP? Is IBM on the upswing or downswing right now?).

mindentropy 6y ago

Isn't this a problem with policies rather than cultural? If it was cultural then there wouldn't be such inventions in the first place and legendary bike and car companies. What I feel is this is because policy created which reduces competition and increases monopoly. It is hard to find companies now which can be started with like Soichiro Honda or like Akio Morita and Masaru Ibuka now. This trend is going on everywhere.

boomlinde 6y ago
It makes sense as a cultural problem from the perspective that workplace culture is an aspect of culture overall. Policies don't spawn in a vacuum separate from culture, but reflect the values of those that create them.