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Cramming a modern PC into a vintage C64 reproduction really is a terrible idea. But as an old Commodore / Amiga fanboy I have to admire Barry Altman (CEO of Com

Cramming a modern PC into a vintage C64 reproduction really is a terrible idea. But as an old Commodore / Amiga fanboy I have to admire Barry Altman (CEO of Commodore USA) for attempting to reawaken the brand. After the sad bankruptcy spiral and eventual shutdown of Commodore the trademarks ended up in the possession of a company based in the Netherlands called Tulip Computers (Now Nedfield) who makes commodity PC workstations. The did a little cheapo licensing of the brand here and there but basically showed no intention of breathing life into the brand again. Mr. Altman appears to have incorporated Commodore USA with the sole purpose of attaining trademark licenses and attempting to tap into the large and very latent Commodore enthusiast market. It doesn't feel like he's going to succeed. But I applaud him for trying. Now that Steve Jobs' face has taken the place of Big Brother in that 1984 ad, it feels to me that the landscape needs a new "creative computing" competitor. The Commodore brand could be such a cool fit, if they only had a decent product. They should reproduce the 4000 / Video Toaster combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nymVNhy4dw8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nymVNhy4dw8

tesseract 16y ago
> the landscape needs a new "creative computing" competitor I hadn't really thought of it this way before, but there is one. Arduino.
- drblast 16y ago
  Yeah, Arduino does have that same spirit. The nearly direct access to the hardware was what made the C64 so cool. This new C64 has none of that, unfortunately.
  - daeken 16y ago
    > The nearly direct access to the hardware was what made the C64 so cool. This new C64 has none of that, unfortunately. Every PC has near-direct access to the hardware. There's nothing stopping you from writing your own BIOS, bootloader, kernel, or anything else -- it's easier than it ever was before. Many people (including myself) really do this, and enjoy it.
    - asciilifeform 16y ago
      You will have to choose two from: A) Written in less than ten man-years without being a Unix clone and/or using existing C drivers B) Displays modern video C) Runs on a neighbor's PC I speak as a frustrated OS developer.
    - URSpider94 16y ago
      This may be true, but the C64 booted into a BASIC interpreter with PEEK and POKE commands, making it possible to read and write to all of the system's memory, including mapped IO ports, from the command line. Plus, monthly magazines like COMPUTE'S Gazette offered in-depth tutorials on just about every sub-system, from audio to video to disk I/O. System-level programming was incredibly easy on the C64 -- I was doing it as a teenager, whereas I have yet to write a device driver for a Linux PC.
      - hessenwolf 16y ago
        I practically wet myself with joy the first time I changed the colours of the border and main screen with, erm, peeks or pokes; I can't remember.
        Maci 16y ago
        POKE 53280 and 53281. Values 0 to 15.
      - pontifier 16y ago
        Just today I found an old issue of a magazine called "Ahoy!" that was devoted to the commodore 64. What a neat time period, it was so exciting. I remember typing in games for my TI in the early 80's. Now programming feels like work to me.
- evanrmurphy 16y ago
  Could you recommend resources for learning more about Arduino? Is http://www.arduino.cc/ http://www.arduino.cc/ a good place to start?
  - dddrh 16y ago
    It is a great place to start! Additionally Make magazine has good articles and a slew of projects for the Arduino. 1)Arduino Issue: http://makezine.com/25/ http://makezine.com/25/ 2)Arduino Projects: http://makeprojects.com/Topic/Arduino http://makeprojects.com/Topic/Arduino
- torpor 16y ago
  Arduino rocks. And I concur with your point that Arduino is a "creative computing" platform, especially if Arduino continues in this direction: http://www.creativeapplications.net/arduino-2/computerless-arduino-arduino/ http://www.creativeapplications.net/arduino-2/computerless-a...
- chalst 16y ago
  When I saw the title, I hoped the story was about Arduino hardware...
- tintin 16y ago
  And the Beagleboard came in mind (http://beagleboard.org/ http://beagleboard.org/).
oasisbob 16y ago
Thanks for that Video Toaster vid! Really brought me back. The Video Toaster was way ahead of its time. When I was doing video production, we were still using a Video Toaster for live CG and graphic display, and that was in 2002.
- alexqgb 16y ago
  The Video Toaster introduced me to non-linear editing...in 1993.
  - chopsueyar 16y ago
    Video Toaster Flyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Toaster#Video_Toaster_Flyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Toaster#Video_Toaster_Fly...
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  I got that video in the mail when I requested it in 7th grade. I must have watched it at least 30 times. Copernicus. Wasn't he Polish? ...and the Lords of Acid soundtrack.
rbanffy 16y ago
> Cramming a modern PC... Sadly, there is little option to that these days. A computer that can't run Windows instantly loses 90% of its possible buyers. If you go that way, you'll have to price the computer as a novelty item and you won't be able to use high-quality components like the cherry keyboard these computers have.
- tesseract 16y ago
  Among Commodore fans? I doubt it.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    This computer is still useful as a desktop PC. A c64 isn't and whoever bought one would still need another PC. I could give this to my son and he would still be able to browse the web, read his e-mail and do his class assignments. A c64 is a toy.
    - tesseract 16y ago
      An Asus Eee Keyboard is useful as a desktop machine and you can install a C64 emulator on it. If you are buying this product, it's for the nostalgia factor (as I doubt they will be able to hit a commodity nettop/netbook price point).
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        An Asus Eee Keyboard has no Cherry switches, so, this is probably better built. And yes - nostalgia has something o do with buying this instead of the Asus or any other probably cheaper small PC. So, how much would you pay for a computer unable to run Windows that can emulate a C64? Chances are, not much.
        tesseract 16y ago
        It wouldn't need to be much. Per one of my other posts in this thread [1] computers that can emulate a C64 (but lack a keyboard and other features of the original) have been sold in the past for around $20. I'm guessing the cost of the machine I am envisioning would be dominated by the cost of the Cherry keyswitches. I'd buy it for $100 and I bet they could make a nice profit margin selling it for even less than that. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2408752 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2408752
enduser 16y ago
> it feels to me that the landscape needs a new "creative computing" competitor. If you're looking for a creative hobbyist computing platform, I think you're looking for Linux. I used Apple from Apple II to original Mac up through the early PPC systems and then switched to Linux because it has the hacker culture that originally lured people to Apples/Macs. The creative potential is not limited just because Linux -can- look just like a mainstream desktop OS.
- SwellJoe 16y ago
  I was a C64 and Amiga user until 1995. In 1995 I switched briefly the Windows 95, and then, already disgusted and bored by Windows, switched to Linux. I found that nearly everything I had loved about the Amiga and C64 culture was stronger and more vibrant in the Linux and Open Source world. The only negatives were that the graphics and sound capabilities of Linux at the time (and still do, honestly) lagged behind Windows significantly, making it difficult to think of it as a creators system, unless what you were creating was software. I suspect part of the reason I moved more and more into software development and IT-related work was partly because the system I loved to work with was simply not capable of doing music and audio on a professional level (and still isn't, despite near-heroic efforts on the part of a few developers; if the kernel can't maintain an audio stream that doesn't skip and sputter, it's impossible to ever produce great audio). Anyway, Linux and Open Source is definitely the heir apparent to the Amiga and C64, and I know many people from those communities ended up in the Open Source world.
  - parasubvert 16y ago
    I went the same route, though I did OS/2 for a couple of years in there (even had a team OS/2 t-shirt). In 2000 though, I switched from Linux to Mac because I was a bit tired of X tweaking. I found that the hobbiest culture of the Mac and NeXT crowds reminded me of the C64 days. What sealed the deal was OS X where basically I had a BSD workstation with a good desktop. Most of my old Mig and Commie friends are sadly on Windows 7. They don't care for UNIX for some reason and dislike Apple. Maybe it's like those folks that "outgrow" the music they liked when they were younger...
Goladus 16y ago
Why is it a terrible idea? Why doesn't it feel like he's going to succeed?
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

tesseract 16y ago

> the landscape needs a new "creative computing" competitor I hadn't really thought of it this way before, but there is one. Arduino.

drblast 16y ago
Yeah, Arduino does have that same spirit. The nearly direct access to the hardware was what made the C64 so cool. This new C64 has none of that, unfortunately.
- daeken 16y ago
  > The nearly direct access to the hardware was what made the C64 so cool. This new C64 has none of that, unfortunately. Every PC has near-direct access to the hardware. There's nothing stopping you from writing your own BIOS, bootloader, kernel, or anything else -- it's easier than it ever was before. Many people (including myself) really do this, and enjoy it.
  - asciilifeform 16y ago
    You will have to choose two from: A) Written in less than ten man-years without being a Unix clone and/or using existing C drivers B) Displays modern video C) Runs on a neighbor's PC I speak as a frustrated OS developer.
  - URSpider94 16y ago
    This may be true, but the C64 booted into a BASIC interpreter with PEEK and POKE commands, making it possible to read and write to all of the system's memory, including mapped IO ports, from the command line. Plus, monthly magazines like COMPUTE'S Gazette offered in-depth tutorials on just about every sub-system, from audio to video to disk I/O. System-level programming was incredibly easy on the C64 -- I was doing it as a teenager, whereas I have yet to write a device driver for a Linux PC.
    - hessenwolf 16y ago
      I practically wet myself with joy the first time I changed the colours of the border and main screen with, erm, peeks or pokes; I can't remember.
      - Maci 16y ago
        POKE 53280 and 53281. Values 0 to 15.
    - pontifier 16y ago
      Just today I found an old issue of a magazine called "Ahoy!" that was devoted to the commodore 64. What a neat time period, it was so exciting. I remember typing in games for my TI in the early 80's. Now programming feels like work to me.
evanrmurphy 16y ago
Could you recommend resources for learning more about Arduino? Is http://www.arduino.cc/ http://www.arduino.cc/ a good place to start?
- dddrh 16y ago
  It is a great place to start! Additionally Make magazine has good articles and a slew of projects for the Arduino. 1)Arduino Issue: http://makezine.com/25/ http://makezine.com/25/ 2)Arduino Projects: http://makeprojects.com/Topic/Arduino http://makeprojects.com/Topic/Arduino
torpor 16y ago
Arduino rocks. And I concur with your point that Arduino is a "creative computing" platform, especially if Arduino continues in this direction: http://www.creativeapplications.net/arduino-2/computerless-arduino-arduino/ http://www.creativeapplications.net/arduino-2/computerless-a...
chalst 16y ago
When I saw the title, I hoped the story was about Arduino hardware...
tintin 16y ago
And the Beagleboard came in mind (http://beagleboard.org/ http://beagleboard.org/).

oasisbob 16y ago

Thanks for that Video Toaster vid! Really brought me back. The Video Toaster was way ahead of its time. When I was doing video production, we were still using a Video Toaster for live CG and graphic display, and that was in 2002.

alexqgb 16y ago
The Video Toaster introduced me to non-linear editing...in 1993.
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  Video Toaster Flyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Toaster#Video_Toaster_Flyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Toaster#Video_Toaster_Fly...
chopsueyar 16y ago
I got that video in the mail when I requested it in 7th grade. I must have watched it at least 30 times. Copernicus. Wasn't he Polish? ...and the Lords of Acid soundtrack.

rbanffy 16y ago

> Cramming a modern PC... Sadly, there is little option to that these days. A computer that can't run Windows instantly loses 90% of its possible buyers. If you go that way, you'll have to price the computer as a novelty item and you won't be able to use high-quality components like the cherry keyboard these computers have.

tesseract 16y ago
Among Commodore fans? I doubt it.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  This computer is still useful as a desktop PC. A c64 isn't and whoever bought one would still need another PC. I could give this to my son and he would still be able to browse the web, read his e-mail and do his class assignments. A c64 is a toy.
  - tesseract 16y ago
    An Asus Eee Keyboard is useful as a desktop machine and you can install a C64 emulator on it. If you are buying this product, it's for the nostalgia factor (as I doubt they will be able to hit a commodity nettop/netbook price point).
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      An Asus Eee Keyboard has no Cherry switches, so, this is probably better built. And yes - nostalgia has something o do with buying this instead of the Asus or any other probably cheaper small PC. So, how much would you pay for a computer unable to run Windows that can emulate a C64? Chances are, not much.
      - tesseract 16y ago
        It wouldn't need to be much. Per one of my other posts in this thread [1] computers that can emulate a C64 (but lack a keyboard and other features of the original) have been sold in the past for around $20. I'm guessing the cost of the machine I am envisioning would be dominated by the cost of the Cherry keyswitches. I'd buy it for $100 and I bet they could make a nice profit margin selling it for even less than that. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2408752 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2408752

enduser 16y ago

> it feels to me that the landscape needs a new "creative computing" competitor. If you're looking for a creative hobbyist computing platform, I think you're looking for Linux. I used Apple from Apple II to original Mac up through the early PPC systems and then switched to Linux because it has the hacker culture that originally lured people to Apples/Macs. The creative potential is not limited just because Linux -can- look just like a mainstream desktop OS.

SwellJoe 16y ago
I was a C64 and Amiga user until 1995. In 1995 I switched briefly the Windows 95, and then, already disgusted and bored by Windows, switched to Linux. I found that nearly everything I had loved about the Amiga and C64 culture was stronger and more vibrant in the Linux and Open Source world. The only negatives were that the graphics and sound capabilities of Linux at the time (and still do, honestly) lagged behind Windows significantly, making it difficult to think of it as a creators system, unless what you were creating was software. I suspect part of the reason I moved more and more into software development and IT-related work was partly because the system I loved to work with was simply not capable of doing music and audio on a professional level (and still isn't, despite near-heroic efforts on the part of a few developers; if the kernel can't maintain an audio stream that doesn't skip and sputter, it's impossible to ever produce great audio). Anyway, Linux and Open Source is definitely the heir apparent to the Amiga and C64, and I know many people from those communities ended up in the Open Source world.
- parasubvert 16y ago
  I went the same route, though I did OS/2 for a couple of years in there (even had a team OS/2 t-shirt). In 2000 though, I switched from Linux to Mac because I was a bit tired of X tweaking. I found that the hobbiest culture of the Mac and NeXT crowds reminded me of the C64 days. What sealed the deal was OS X where basically I had a BSD workstation with a good desktop. Most of my old Mig and Commie friends are sadly on Windows 7. They don't care for UNIX for some reason and dislike Apple. Maybe it's like those folks that "outgrow" the music they liked when they were younger...

Goladus 16y ago

Why is it a terrible idea? Why doesn't it feel like he's going to succeed?

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]