4 ms·

This is a really intriguing artefact of specific cultures. Clearly, there are benefits to 'Failure is Not Tolerated' cultures, it is interesting how people can

by jariel 6y ago

This is a really intriguing artefact of specific cultures. Clearly, there are benefits to 'Failure is Not Tolerated' cultures, it is interesting how people can pull rabbits out of hats when they have to. That said, if they are up against a real wall, they will be pulling the rabbits out their rears (ie fraud) and it will be a problem. But then you get a secondary effect: a kind of 'coverup cancer' which spreads through the social system, nobody willing to let it surface. The European CEO of Japanese Olympus has a pretty intriguing story about this. Uncanny stuff about the depth of the fraud, like being in an episode of Twilight Zone. The corruption is way, way more than just a few leaders - it's entire networks of systems and leaders, everyone covering for one another. I suspect there are vast systematic hidden problems in Japan. Germany has a little bit of this. For some cultures, it's hard to understand the actual value of 'Chapter 11'. It's really an amazing bit of commercial policy that bankruptcy protection. Someone needs to write a book on all the various ways we hide problems. The US Fed takes on Trillions of toxic assets. The Canadian economy prints money to new migrants buying homes as a form of 'spending the future now' in a giant Ponzi scheme. China makes up numbers willy nilly. Japanese hide it inside private networks. Etc..

andykx 6y ago
Japanese companies also avoid firing people as much as possible. Typically, when they want you to leave, they will demote you or move you to a generally unpleasant position. I can't find the source where I heard this, but it was an interview with several "average" Japanese people concerning Japanese work culture.
- jariel 6y ago
  Yes 'window dressing' [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/business/global/layoffs-illegal-japan-workers-are-sent-to-the-boredom-room.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/business/global/layoffs-i...
- ezconnect 6y ago
  In South Korea they will place your table in front of the bathroom and wait for you to quit. They are making it illegal now.
  - SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
    Fine, if it doesn't stink.
sn41 6y ago
The Carlos Ghosn case highlights some of the points you raise about the arbitrariness and closed-box nature of Japanese nativism. I have worked for a Japanese client (big firm, I will not name them). I think it is a miracle that Japanese innovate at all. Their hierarchies are extra rigid, and promotions are more or less dependent on seniority. It was difficult to find any tech manager who was not around 60 years old. Peer-to-peer email from our firm to Japanese engineers was strictly forbidden. Except for the money involved, it was like a humorous game of Chinese whispers - a perfectly legitimate technical point raised will come back as completely illogical gibberish because it was been distorted by layers of management in between. Engineers at my (Indian) firm in 2001 were saying that Sony's days are numbered, and Samsung will eat their lunch. I refused to believe it since South Korea had just gone through a major crisis. 20 years later, it is patently clear that they were understating the trend. The often deserving worship of Japanese culture that many indulge in, leads to vast blind spots about Japan's cultural disadvantages.
- unabst 6y ago
  Innovation happens at the individual level, and to that end, the Japanese are incredibly innovative. The person must then fight the hierarchies which farms the innovations from individuals who are undercompensated for their miraculous work. Same with the incredible craftsmen and artists. But if the hierarchy is bad, everyone loses. The engineer would often then defect and seek a meritocracy where they are valued by their work and not seniority. A quick lookup for the Flash inventor backs this. Fujio Masuoka is now CTO of a company in Singapore. Shuji Nakamura, the inventory of the blue LED is the other primary example. He is now professor of Materials at the University of California, Santa Barbara, with 208 US patents and a Nobel prize. He was in the news a lot, and stirred up much needed debate in Japan regarding who owns the work of an employee. But one counter example is Nintendo. Shigeru Miyamoto is the genius behind Super Mario, and him and his small team are responsible for so much of their hierarchy's success. Nintendo stands tall to this day. Sony is a mixed bag, but their gaming division is still winning. Korea is actually known to be incredibly similar to Japan, and according to one theory the only reason why Korea outpaced Japan is because the Japanese were too busy addicted to Pachinko. That may sound absurd, but not if you've seen how ubiquitous Pachinko is, and it's pure gambling with all the dangers of addiction and lives in shambles. Ironically, 80% of the parlors are owned by Japanese Koreans.
mnky9800n 6y ago
I feel like most places have vast systemic problems. It's just that they are problems unique to each place, at least, in their own way.
laurieg 6y ago
I recommend reading Olympus CEO Michael Woodford's book ”Exposure". Here's my brief summary: Woodford works his way up through the company ranks. He's hear of Olympus Europe when he gets made CEO of the whole company. He goes over to Japan. Soon after becoming CEO an investigative journalist for a small magazine, Facta, discovers some strange acquisitions Olympus made. Woodford questions the board. They tell him not to worry. Woodford starts digging and covering his back. He gets fired. The Japanese board state "cultural differences" and no journalist questions this. News of the fraud finally starts to break. 1.5 billion USD of losses were hidden over fraud which took place over decades. A few key board members get suspended sentences. Some members of the board remain on the board even after the dust settles. His book goes into more detail about how companies, banks and journalists are all complicit in a system that allows fraud to go unchecked. Even after the details were published they were still selling this one under the rug. (A bit of a tangent but it's hard not to sympathise with Kelly and Ghosn of Nissan. The key players at Olympus never saw the inside of a jail cell but Ghosn got half a year of solitary before any conviction.)

by jariel 6y ago

andykx 6y ago

Japanese companies also avoid firing people as much as possible. Typically, when they want you to leave, they will demote you or move you to a generally unpleasant position. I can't find the source where I heard this, but it was an interview with several "average" Japanese people concerning Japanese work culture.

jariel 6y ago
Yes 'window dressing' [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/business/global/layoffs-illegal-japan-workers-are-sent-to-the-boredom-room.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/business/global/layoffs-i...
ezconnect 6y ago
In South Korea they will place your table in front of the bathroom and wait for you to quit. They are making it illegal now.
- SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
  Fine, if it doesn't stink.

sn41 6y ago

The Carlos Ghosn case highlights some of the points you raise about the arbitrariness and closed-box nature of Japanese nativism. I have worked for a Japanese client (big firm, I will not name them). I think it is a miracle that Japanese innovate at all. Their hierarchies are extra rigid, and promotions are more or less dependent on seniority. It was difficult to find any tech manager who was not around 60 years old. Peer-to-peer email from our firm to Japanese engineers was strictly forbidden. Except for the money involved, it was like a humorous game of Chinese whispers - a perfectly legitimate technical point raised will come back as completely illogical gibberish because it was been distorted by layers of management in between. Engineers at my (Indian) firm in 2001 were saying that Sony's days are numbered, and Samsung will eat their lunch. I refused to believe it since South Korea had just gone through a major crisis. 20 years later, it is patently clear that they were understating the trend. The often deserving worship of Japanese culture that many indulge in, leads to vast blind spots about Japan's cultural disadvantages.

unabst 6y ago
Innovation happens at the individual level, and to that end, the Japanese are incredibly innovative. The person must then fight the hierarchies which farms the innovations from individuals who are undercompensated for their miraculous work. Same with the incredible craftsmen and artists. But if the hierarchy is bad, everyone loses. The engineer would often then defect and seek a meritocracy where they are valued by their work and not seniority. A quick lookup for the Flash inventor backs this. Fujio Masuoka is now CTO of a company in Singapore. Shuji Nakamura, the inventory of the blue LED is the other primary example. He is now professor of Materials at the University of California, Santa Barbara, with 208 US patents and a Nobel prize. He was in the news a lot, and stirred up much needed debate in Japan regarding who owns the work of an employee. But one counter example is Nintendo. Shigeru Miyamoto is the genius behind Super Mario, and him and his small team are responsible for so much of their hierarchy's success. Nintendo stands tall to this day. Sony is a mixed bag, but their gaming division is still winning. Korea is actually known to be incredibly similar to Japan, and according to one theory the only reason why Korea outpaced Japan is because the Japanese were too busy addicted to Pachinko. That may sound absurd, but not if you've seen how ubiquitous Pachinko is, and it's pure gambling with all the dangers of addiction and lives in shambles. Ironically, 80% of the parlors are owned by Japanese Koreans.

mnky9800n 6y ago

I feel like most places have vast systemic problems. It's just that they are problems unique to each place, at least, in their own way.

laurieg 6y ago

I recommend reading Olympus CEO Michael Woodford's book ”Exposure". Here's my brief summary: Woodford works his way up through the company ranks. He's hear of Olympus Europe when he gets made CEO of the whole company. He goes over to Japan. Soon after becoming CEO an investigative journalist for a small magazine, Facta, discovers some strange acquisitions Olympus made. Woodford questions the board. They tell him not to worry. Woodford starts digging and covering his back. He gets fired. The Japanese board state "cultural differences" and no journalist questions this. News of the fraud finally starts to break. 1.5 billion USD of losses were hidden over fraud which took place over decades. A few key board members get suspended sentences. Some members of the board remain on the board even after the dust settles. His book goes into more detail about how companies, banks and journalists are all complicit in a system that allows fraud to go unchecked. Even after the details were published they were still selling this one under the rug. (A bit of a tangent but it's hard not to sympathise with Kelly and Ghosn of Nissan. The key players at Olympus never saw the inside of a jail cell but Ghosn got half a year of solitary before any conviction.)