5 ms·

You must be mad a lot. This is how the world works and Apple is nothing to single out here.

echelon 6y ago
> This is how the world works It's broken, and the government is going to slap the shit out of Apple. The App Store eats away more profit than taxes, and is single handedly responsible for teaching the public that an eternity of app updates are for free. They drove the public to expect apps should be cheaper than coffee.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > They drove the public to expect apps should be cheaper than coffee. I don't understand - did Apple set app prices? Or did the app developers?
  - spanhandler 6y ago
    It's exactly what you'd expect from a low-friction, highly competitive marketplace. They eat everyone's profit in a hurry. That Apple was able to take a 30% cut while this happened leads me to believe they did an incredibly good job of creating a low-friction, highly competitive marketplace. Now, contrary to econ 101 thought experiments, you don't always want to approach the ideal of perfectly-competitive marketplaces too closely. It can be bad for overall market health and even, ultimately, harm choices available to consumers for exactly the reasons cited. [EDIT] actually it could also indicate that they've done one part of market-creation really poorly, which is that they're making reliable information other than price way too hard to discover, though again, that the market has not just survived this defect/cost but thrived indicates they did an uncommonly good job at other parts.
- mimsee 6y ago
  > They drove the public to expect apps should be cheaper than coffee. While still continuing to charge the developer 99USD a year.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    This is the least of the problems of trying to earn money on the App Store.
- zepto 6y ago
  How did Apple teach the public this? My recollection was that if anyone taught this to the public it was the press and the blogosphere. This argument was had at the time, and review sites vilified anything that wasn’t $1 as greed. Can you say what Apple did that contributed to this?
  - hboon 6y ago
    Couple of things: * iOS upgrades were free and macOS upgrades turned free a few years after the iOS App Store became available * the lower price tiers available for app developers started with 0 and $1, and in steps of $1 * for many years, the iOS App Store free and paid charts were huge drivers for downloads. It was worth making an app much cheaper and making it up in volume. That strategy worked for many years. Apple cultivated that environment and developers lived it
    - zepto 6y ago
      I don’t think Apple set the standard for free software updates - they just needed to do that to compete with VC and Adversing funded Browsers and web apps. That is where the idea that software should be free or cheap came from. As for ‘allowing’ one dollar apps. It seems like you are proposing that Apple should be punished for not entering into a price fixing arrangement to artificially inflate software prices. I have some sympathy for wishing they had done this, but this is exactly what they tried with books, and they were subjected to antitrust action. Keeping prices artificially high is illegal - you can’t blame Apple for not doing it. Making software free or cheap was already a fait accompli, thanks to the web and VC funded startups. Apple actually reversed that partially by creating a store that was trustworthy enough for people to spend some money on software again. It is simply not true that Apple caused the race to the bottom. Look back at media from the time and you can confirm this.
      - hboon 6y ago
        I don’t think they had to do anything illegal. One of the things they could have done much earlier can be felt in the App Store nowadays. Notice the lack of emphasis on charts now. It’s not perfect now, but developer laments that getting featured doesn’t drive sales like it did before (because chatting didn’t have the kind of up front visibility and that features don’t last for an entire week anymore). That’s a good thing. There is always downward pressure on prices because well-funded startups can provide their product free. But charts and the emphasis on them were very very unhealthy. I don’t think Apple can ever fix it now. This is a serious problem for the entire consumer and prosumer industry. While competition that drives prices down is often good, but past a certain limit and it can do long term harm to the industry that is irreversible. I fear we might have already crossed that threshold.
- vezycash 6y ago
  > It's broken, and the government is going to slap the shit out of Apple. I doubt it. Apple would get out it like they got out of their European Tax-ish.
mitchdoogle 6y ago
This article and thread is about Apple though. Why would they not be the subject of consternation? The world has worked in many different ways before, and will work in different ways in the future. Let's have a discussion about how we'd like to see it work, ya?
bravoetch 6y ago
> This is how the world works "It is what it is"
patmorgan23 6y ago
Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it or accept it

> This is how the world works It's broken, and the government is going to slap the shit out of Apple. The App Store eats away more profit than taxes, and is single handedly responsible for teaching the public that an eternity of app updates are for free. They drove the public to expect apps should be cheaper than coffee.

chrisseaton 6y ago
> They drove the public to expect apps should be cheaper than coffee. I don't understand - did Apple set app prices? Or did the app developers?
- spanhandler 6y ago
  It's exactly what you'd expect from a low-friction, highly competitive marketplace. They eat everyone's profit in a hurry. That Apple was able to take a 30% cut while this happened leads me to believe they did an incredibly good job of creating a low-friction, highly competitive marketplace. Now, contrary to econ 101 thought experiments, you don't always want to approach the ideal of perfectly-competitive marketplaces too closely. It can be bad for overall market health and even, ultimately, harm choices available to consumers for exactly the reasons cited. [EDIT] actually it could also indicate that they've done one part of market-creation really poorly, which is that they're making reliable information other than price way too hard to discover, though again, that the market has not just survived this defect/cost but thrived indicates they did an uncommonly good job at other parts.
mimsee 6y ago
> They drove the public to expect apps should be cheaper than coffee. While still continuing to charge the developer 99USD a year.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  This is the least of the problems of trying to earn money on the App Store.
zepto 6y ago
How did Apple teach the public this? My recollection was that if anyone taught this to the public it was the press and the blogosphere. This argument was had at the time, and review sites vilified anything that wasn’t $1 as greed. Can you say what Apple did that contributed to this?
- hboon 6y ago
  Couple of things: * iOS upgrades were free and macOS upgrades turned free a few years after the iOS App Store became available * the lower price tiers available for app developers started with 0 and $1, and in steps of $1 * for many years, the iOS App Store free and paid charts were huge drivers for downloads. It was worth making an app much cheaper and making it up in volume. That strategy worked for many years. Apple cultivated that environment and developers lived it
  - zepto 6y ago
    I don’t think Apple set the standard for free software updates - they just needed to do that to compete with VC and Adversing funded Browsers and web apps. That is where the idea that software should be free or cheap came from. As for ‘allowing’ one dollar apps. It seems like you are proposing that Apple should be punished for not entering into a price fixing arrangement to artificially inflate software prices. I have some sympathy for wishing they had done this, but this is exactly what they tried with books, and they were subjected to antitrust action. Keeping prices artificially high is illegal - you can’t blame Apple for not doing it. Making software free or cheap was already a fait accompli, thanks to the web and VC funded startups. Apple actually reversed that partially by creating a store that was trustworthy enough for people to spend some money on software again. It is simply not true that Apple caused the race to the bottom. Look back at media from the time and you can confirm this.
    - hboon 6y ago
      I don’t think they had to do anything illegal. One of the things they could have done much earlier can be felt in the App Store nowadays. Notice the lack of emphasis on charts now. It’s not perfect now, but developer laments that getting featured doesn’t drive sales like it did before (because chatting didn’t have the kind of up front visibility and that features don’t last for an entire week anymore). That’s a good thing. There is always downward pressure on prices because well-funded startups can provide their product free. But charts and the emphasis on them were very very unhealthy. I don’t think Apple can ever fix it now. This is a serious problem for the entire consumer and prosumer industry. While competition that drives prices down is often good, but past a certain limit and it can do long term harm to the industry that is irreversible. I fear we might have already crossed that threshold.
vezycash 6y ago
> It's broken, and the government is going to slap the shit out of Apple. I doubt it. Apple would get out it like they got out of their European Tax-ish.

mitchdoogle 6y ago

This article and thread is about Apple though. Why would they not be the subject of consternation? The world has worked in many different ways before, and will work in different ways in the future. Let's have a discussion about how we'd like to see it work, ya?

bravoetch 6y ago

> This is how the world works "It is what it is"

patmorgan23 6y ago

Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it or accept it