4 ms·

> Three-finger-up + click is way smoother than doing a random walk through your open windows. Ummm, the challenge was to use the keyboard though? No amount of

> Three-finger-up + click is way smoother than doing a random walk through your open windows. Ummm, the challenge was to use the keyboard though? No amount of rationalization will convince me that taking hands your hands off the keyboard is smoother than leaving them on. I do enjoy watching junior devs struggling to find their lost full-screen workspace window by swiping furiously sideways with their trackpad though. For even more ridiculousness, I know I can always get a minute to read some news after I ask them to open Chrome devtools and wait while they try to get back to the original Chrome window afterwards. > lolwut? Cmd+? opens a box to incrementally search all menus, Ctrl+P and Ctrl+N let you navigate the results, and return runs the menu item. Pffft, okay. You don't even know the difference between searching and hunting. They're completely different operations, for different purposes. There is a way to hunt through menus with macOS, but like all Apple shortcuts it's completely obtuse.

jjoonathan 6y ago
> Ummm, the challenge was to use the keyboard though? The challenge was to get to a window, quickly. The keyboard was your constraint. > I do enjoy watching junior devs struggling Funny, I enjoy watching the windows crowd alt-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab ah were was it again? > Pffft, okay. You don't even know the difference between searching and hunting. Now you're playing with definitions to hide the fact that you were wrong. > like all Apple shortcuts it's completely obtuse. Not if you learn them. You clearly did it before, so get off your butt and do it again. Personally, I love having emacs-style Ctrl+PN and Ctrl+FB navigation available everywhere, and I love the fact that with copy/paste on Cmd+CV I don't have to worry about where a terminal app moved Ctrl+C off to.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  > The challenge was to get to a window, quickly. Incorrect. My challenge, that you responded to in an article about keyboard shortcuts was about using the keyboard. You failed miserably and your comment got disappeared for it. Try harder xP > Funny, I enjoy watching the windows crowd alt-tab-tab-tab... Sure, you can have newbs on any platform. The difference is that Windows and Windows-inspired desktop environments like XFCE are vastly more configurable than anything on a Mac - where it's Apple's way or the highway. You're stuck with Apple's choices unless you hack your OS with third party apps to fix them. > Now you're playing with definitions to hide the fact that you were wrong. You're wearing your ignorance like a badge of pride. Learn about UX if you don't understand the difference between searching and hunting. There's a world of difference. > Not if you learn them. That's my entire point. Windows shortcuts easily discoverable since they are clearly labeled; no weird symbols that don't exist anywhere on the keyboard and there are fewer of them since the same shortcuts work everywhere. Plus you can tab to focus everywhere instead of pushing a mouse pointer thousands of miles a year to get where you want. > Personally, I love having emacs-style Ctrl+PN and Ctrl+FB navigation available everywhere... And yet, you think constantly swapping between keyboard and mouse is "smooth". Makes sense!
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
mtrower 6y ago
>Ummm, the challenge was to use the keyboard though? No amount of rationalization will convince me that taking hands your hands off the keyboard is smoother than leaving them on. No amount of rationalization will convince me that Windows shortcuts for accessibility are more productive than using your mouse in appropriate situations (some X11 tiling WMs do a better job, yes). See, I can make statements like this too. > I do enjoy watching junior devs struggling to find their lost full-screen workspace window by swiping furiously sideways with their trackpad though. For even more ridiculousness, I know I can always get a minute to read some news after I ask them to open Chrome devtools and wait while they try to get back to the original Chrome window afterwards. That's nice; you enjoy watching fledglings who don't know what they're doing struggle to use their tools effectively. That says nothing about achievable productivity in an environment.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  > See, I can make statements like this too. Yep. You can say whatever you want. I have never seen a mixed mouse and keyboard user do things faster or more efficiently than a pure keyboard user. Pure scientific empirical evidence is on my side and no amount of rationalization will change the fact that keyboard shortcuts are faster once you learn them. You can read about some studies surrounding this here: https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/30682/are-there-any-recent-studies-of-the-keyboard-vs-mouse-issue/30749#30749 https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/30682/are-there-any-r... > That's nice; you enjoy watching fledglings who don't know what they're doing struggle to use their tools effectively. Sure. Who doesn't? There are whole sub-reddits dedicated to this type of comedic performance. > That says nothing about achievable productivity in an environment. Yes, it does. That they resort to constantly using the trackpad to swipe between speaks loudly to the lack of obvious keyboard functionality.
  - sbuk 6y ago
    > I have never seen a mixed mouse and keyboard user do things faster or more efficiently than a pure keyboard user You‘ve clearly never watched anyone use any kind of CAD or graphics application in that case!

jjoonathan 6y ago

> Ummm, the challenge was to use the keyboard though? The challenge was to get to a window, quickly. The keyboard was your constraint. > I do enjoy watching junior devs struggling Funny, I enjoy watching the windows crowd alt-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab-tab ah were was it again? > Pffft, okay. You don't even know the difference between searching and hunting. Now you're playing with definitions to hide the fact that you were wrong. > like all Apple shortcuts it's completely obtuse. Not if you learn them. You clearly did it before, so get off your butt and do it again. Personally, I love having emacs-style Ctrl+PN and Ctrl+FB navigation available everywhere, and I love the fact that with copy/paste on Cmd+CV I don't have to worry about where a terminal app moved Ctrl+C off to.

wayneftw 6y ago
> The challenge was to get to a window, quickly. Incorrect. My challenge, that you responded to in an article about keyboard shortcuts was about using the keyboard. You failed miserably and your comment got disappeared for it. Try harder xP > Funny, I enjoy watching the windows crowd alt-tab-tab-tab... Sure, you can have newbs on any platform. The difference is that Windows and Windows-inspired desktop environments like XFCE are vastly more configurable than anything on a Mac - where it's Apple's way or the highway. You're stuck with Apple's choices unless you hack your OS with third party apps to fix them. > Now you're playing with definitions to hide the fact that you were wrong. You're wearing your ignorance like a badge of pride. Learn about UX if you don't understand the difference between searching and hunting. There's a world of difference. > Not if you learn them. That's my entire point. Windows shortcuts easily discoverable since they are clearly labeled; no weird symbols that don't exist anywhere on the keyboard and there are fewer of them since the same shortcuts work everywhere. Plus you can tab to focus everywhere instead of pushing a mouse pointer thousands of miles a year to get where you want. > Personally, I love having emacs-style Ctrl+PN and Ctrl+FB navigation available everywhere... And yet, you think constantly swapping between keyboard and mouse is "smooth". Makes sense!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

mtrower 6y ago

>Ummm, the challenge was to use the keyboard though? No amount of rationalization will convince me that taking hands your hands off the keyboard is smoother than leaving them on. No amount of rationalization will convince me that Windows shortcuts for accessibility are more productive than using your mouse in appropriate situations (some X11 tiling WMs do a better job, yes). See, I can make statements like this too. > I do enjoy watching junior devs struggling to find their lost full-screen workspace window by swiping furiously sideways with their trackpad though. For even more ridiculousness, I know I can always get a minute to read some news after I ask them to open Chrome devtools and wait while they try to get back to the original Chrome window afterwards. That's nice; you enjoy watching fledglings who don't know what they're doing struggle to use their tools effectively. That says nothing about achievable productivity in an environment.

wayneftw 6y ago
> See, I can make statements like this too. Yep. You can say whatever you want. I have never seen a mixed mouse and keyboard user do things faster or more efficiently than a pure keyboard user. Pure scientific empirical evidence is on my side and no amount of rationalization will change the fact that keyboard shortcuts are faster once you learn them. You can read about some studies surrounding this here: https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/30682/are-there-any-recent-studies-of-the-keyboard-vs-mouse-issue/30749#30749 https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/30682/are-there-any-r... > That's nice; you enjoy watching fledglings who don't know what they're doing struggle to use their tools effectively. Sure. Who doesn't? There are whole sub-reddits dedicated to this type of comedic performance. > That says nothing about achievable productivity in an environment. Yes, it does. That they resort to constantly using the trackpad to swipe between speaks loudly to the lack of obvious keyboard functionality.
- sbuk 6y ago
  > I have never seen a mixed mouse and keyboard user do things faster or more efficiently than a pure keyboard user You‘ve clearly never watched anyone use any kind of CAD or graphics application in that case!