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>The existence of this thread, with no mention of the Touch Bar yet, but we're seeing keen enthusiasm over shortcuts with as much as 3 keyboard keys involved, d

>The existence of this thread, with no mention of the Touch Bar yet, but we're seeing keen enthusiasm over shortcuts with as much as 3 keyboard keys involved, demonstrates exactly how useless the gimmick of the Touch Bar is. For the vast majority of users, the shortcuts we all know and love might as well not exist. >About 90 per cent of computer users don't use CTRL-F to search for a word - as they don't know such a keyboard shortcut exists, a Google survey found. The results stunned Google's Uber Tech Lead for Search Quality and User Happiness, Dan Russell. "I think we just all assume that we all know it, but no one actually does." https://www.smh.com.au/technology/only-one-in-10-know-what-ctrlf-does--here-are-shortcuts-you-should-know-20111130-1o69d.html https://www.smh.com.au/technology/only-one-in-10-know-what-c... This specific audience is exactly the wrong group to ask about the utility of the touch bar, since we are in the tiny minority who find traditional function keys to be useful.

Terretta 6y ago
Tech bubble and Google were similarly chagrined to realize normals used SERPs to navigate to web sites when organic results didn't have the site itself top of the list and users were ending up at places that confused them. From Feb 15, 2010: "Suddenly, the two worlds collided. The tech savvy ran head-on into the tech illiterate and mockery and disbelief started to overtake confusion as the general tone..." "While we mock those users, the simple fact is they haven't necessarily failed, something failed them. With all of our talk about the semantic Web and search engine optimization and tailoring search results to the individual user, there are thousands upon thousands of users performing the same simple search and following the same wrong road. If this were a standard traffic sign misdirecting this many people, it would have been pulled down long ago." // via readwriteweb.com: https://web.archive.org/web/20100215124750/http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_google_failed_internet_meme.php https://web.archive.org/web/20100215124750/http://www.readwr...
- aasasd 6y ago
  I'm a web programmer, and I use web search to navigate to my bank's site. Because there are probably hundreds of phishers waiting for me to mistype a letter.
  - ImaCake 6y ago
    My firefox just remembers what sites I visit frequently, so when I start typing my bank's URL, that's what I get when I press enter to autocomplete. This seems robust to me; either I get my bank's website every time, or I will get repeatedly scammed (unlikely).
donkeyd 6y ago
I had to teach a new colleague (MBA with an innovation major) ctrl+c anf ctrl+v. To him, icons in a bar would probably be way more intuitive than looking for shorcuts online.
- spanhandler 6y ago
  Once you're outside the world of computer nerds and Excel-wizards, it's easy to become the office "computer expert" and to become like 10x as efficient as anyone else on your floor though the magic of knowing a half-dozen common keyboard shortcuts and sort-of knowing how files work, as in how to copy them from one place to another, and that attachments are just files, and stuff like that. Yes, seriously. What we consider to be basic or even somewhat below-basic computer literacy is rare even among the gainfully-employed-in-an-office crowd, outside our bubbles. Yet we think we have any clue at all about "UX". LOL.
  - ImaCake 6y ago
    I went into a GMP company (i.e. medical goods manufacturer subjected to regulations) with the attitude that I could impress with my tricks for efficiency. But GMP is so insane that there is simply no way to do anything efficently at all. I think the only thing I managed to improve was a few excel sheets. I am back in research now, and very glad to be in a culture where the most efficient and effect technique is the one used. The thing is, people know there are better ways, but sometimes their hands are tied by stupid rules.
joshuak 6y ago
Not that you are doing this but it is frustrating when people use this argument to justify the lack of value of some features for the general population, but this is just a "sell to the largest market" mentality. It fails to recognize the value of features that users must learn. This situation is often used to argue some features are unimportant when in fact the observation should be that there is a need for better product education. Cars, games, and computers in general are examples of products that improve in value more rapidly as users learn how to use them as apposed to trying to cater to the least knowledgeable users. Computer games in particular often do a good job of teaching users about features incrementally.
supernova87a 6y ago
This is so true. I find Google/Gmail also have advanced shortcuts that stem from unix style, and I could not imagine not being able to use J/K to rapidly select lots of email messages for bulk actions. I enabled this on my parents account, and years later they still are mousing through each message individually, as if I never showed them how to do it. Even copy/paste shortcuts elude them.

Terretta 6y ago

Tech bubble and Google were similarly chagrined to realize normals used SERPs to navigate to web sites when organic results didn't have the site itself top of the list and users were ending up at places that confused them. From Feb 15, 2010: "Suddenly, the two worlds collided. The tech savvy ran head-on into the tech illiterate and mockery and disbelief started to overtake confusion as the general tone..." "While we mock those users, the simple fact is they haven't necessarily failed, something failed them. With all of our talk about the semantic Web and search engine optimization and tailoring search results to the individual user, there are thousands upon thousands of users performing the same simple search and following the same wrong road. If this were a standard traffic sign misdirecting this many people, it would have been pulled down long ago." // via readwriteweb.com: https://web.archive.org/web/20100215124750/http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_google_failed_internet_meme.php https://web.archive.org/web/20100215124750/http://www.readwr...

aasasd 6y ago
I'm a web programmer, and I use web search to navigate to my bank's site. Because there are probably hundreds of phishers waiting for me to mistype a letter.
- ImaCake 6y ago
  My firefox just remembers what sites I visit frequently, so when I start typing my bank's URL, that's what I get when I press enter to autocomplete. This seems robust to me; either I get my bank's website every time, or I will get repeatedly scammed (unlikely).

donkeyd 6y ago

I had to teach a new colleague (MBA with an innovation major) ctrl+c anf ctrl+v. To him, icons in a bar would probably be way more intuitive than looking for shorcuts online.

spanhandler 6y ago
Once you're outside the world of computer nerds and Excel-wizards, it's easy to become the office "computer expert" and to become like 10x as efficient as anyone else on your floor though the magic of knowing a half-dozen common keyboard shortcuts and sort-of knowing how files work, as in how to copy them from one place to another, and that attachments are just files, and stuff like that. Yes, seriously. What we consider to be basic or even somewhat below-basic computer literacy is rare even among the gainfully-employed-in-an-office crowd, outside our bubbles. Yet we think we have any clue at all about "UX". LOL.
- ImaCake 6y ago
  I went into a GMP company (i.e. medical goods manufacturer subjected to regulations) with the attitude that I could impress with my tricks for efficiency. But GMP is so insane that there is simply no way to do anything efficently at all. I think the only thing I managed to improve was a few excel sheets. I am back in research now, and very glad to be in a culture where the most efficient and effect technique is the one used. The thing is, people know there are better ways, but sometimes their hands are tied by stupid rules.

joshuak 6y ago

Not that you are doing this but it is frustrating when people use this argument to justify the lack of value of some features for the general population, but this is just a "sell to the largest market" mentality. It fails to recognize the value of features that users must learn. This situation is often used to argue some features are unimportant when in fact the observation should be that there is a need for better product education. Cars, games, and computers in general are examples of products that improve in value more rapidly as users learn how to use them as apposed to trying to cater to the least knowledgeable users. Computer games in particular often do a good job of teaching users about features incrementally.

supernova87a 6y ago

This is so true. I find Google/Gmail also have advanced shortcuts that stem from unix style, and I could not imagine not being able to use J/K to rapidly select lots of email messages for bulk actions. I enabled this on my parents account, and years later they still are mousing through each message individually, as if I never showed them how to do it. Even copy/paste shortcuts elude them.