4 ms·

The existence of this thread, with no mention of the Touch Bar yet, but we're seeing keen enthusiasm over shortcuts with as much as 3 keyboard keys involved, de

The existence of this thread, with no mention of the Touch Bar yet, but we're seeing keen enthusiasm over shortcuts with as much as 3 keyboard keys involved, demonstrates exactly how useless the gimmick of the Touch Bar is. It provides no snappiness in tactility or aurality, which is a key part of why keyboard shortcuts are so useful and memorable. My Touch Bar even froze up the other day, though that was almost the first time it's happened in my 3 years of using 3 generations of Touch Bar MBPs. Long live the keyboard, and I hope Apple phases out the Touch Bar soon.

roland35 6y ago
The touch bar is an interesting concept, but I hardly use it as a new Mac user (got a MacBook pro for the first time ever this year), as cool as I thought it was at first. I wish it had a few features to improve the experience: - ability to lock an app. It would be nice to have zoom controls available like unmute when I don't have zoom window active - hard buttons, with led screens. This would make things like debugging easier where I need to hit the "step over" button repeatedly - easier customization without paid apps or scripting. I can only change a few defaults around
- spanhandler 6y ago
  I think the touchbar would have been vastly more useful as a companion app for iPhone and iPad. As implemented, I can't afford to become used to it even if I wanted to unless I plan to be not just on a Mac, but specifically on a MacBook Pro with no external keyboard most of the time.
ProbablyRyaan 6y ago
Having no stand-alone esc key is brutal (I know newer models have one now).
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  Having the esc key on my 2019 model is good. But I hate how the touch bar offers zero tactile feedback, and reacts to even the slightest brush from the edge of a finger. I've deleted all buttons except volume control and mute on mine, and I still end up inadvertently hitting mute sometimes when typing numbers and symbols.
mobilemidget 6y ago
I had to lookup 'aurality', but how does that relate to the Touch Bar? Just want to understand.
- KingTen 6y ago
  I guess because you can normally hear your keys clicking. I had to google it too
  - mobilemidget 6y ago
    ah okay that kind of audible feedback, I don't know, I never miss, and the changing color is kind of clear imho
yreg 6y ago
I doubt the Touch bar will stay the same. It runs on a separate arm soc and it would seem terribly wastefull to keep all of that after the arm transition. So they'd have to put significant effort into it (to change the architecture to make it run on the new chip together with the system). I think they would do some major changes to it in this case. Or they can phase it out and say it paved the way for the new arm macs and that it is no longer needed (and keep the face, not admitting that it was a failure). Especially so if the 1st Apple silicon Macbook gen is already touch based. I hope they get rid of the Touch Bar during the transition. There were no WWDC sessions about it either.
- KingTen 6y ago
  God I hope they kill it
- karmakaze 6y ago
  I see this going the other way. All the keys will become a large touch/display area eventually. It wont me much worse since eventually we'll have dynamically morphing surfaces so the keys raise/depress and have tactile movements/vibrations/sounds. If history and trends have shown anything the future is more gimmicky not less, and useful bits come out of it from time to time. We'll be the generation to say "In my day keys were physically separate labelled and actually moved--crumbs getting inside were a real problem."
  - yreg 6y ago
    Perhaps some day, but certainly not in the next gen. They have a bigger fish to fry, don't they?
- jayd16 6y ago
  I was thinking they would finally go touch screen and kill it. Maybe dock it at the bottom of the main screen.
GeekyBear 6y ago
>The existence of this thread, with no mention of the Touch Bar yet, but we're seeing keen enthusiasm over shortcuts with as much as 3 keyboard keys involved, demonstrates exactly how useless the gimmick of the Touch Bar is. For the vast majority of users, the shortcuts we all know and love might as well not exist. >About 90 per cent of computer users don't use CTRL-F to search for a word - as they don't know such a keyboard shortcut exists, a Google survey found. The results stunned Google's Uber Tech Lead for Search Quality and User Happiness, Dan Russell. "I think we just all assume that we all know it, but no one actually does." https://www.smh.com.au/technology/only-one-in-10-know-what-ctrlf-does--here-are-shortcuts-you-should-know-20111130-1o69d.html https://www.smh.com.au/technology/only-one-in-10-know-what-c... This specific audience is exactly the wrong group to ask about the utility of the touch bar, since we are in the tiny minority who find traditional function keys to be useful.
- Terretta 6y ago
  Tech bubble and Google were similarly chagrined to realize normals used SERPs to navigate to web sites when organic results didn't have the site itself top of the list and users were ending up at places that confused them. From Feb 15, 2010: "Suddenly, the two worlds collided. The tech savvy ran head-on into the tech illiterate and mockery and disbelief started to overtake confusion as the general tone..." "While we mock those users, the simple fact is they haven't necessarily failed, something failed them. With all of our talk about the semantic Web and search engine optimization and tailoring search results to the individual user, there are thousands upon thousands of users performing the same simple search and following the same wrong road. If this were a standard traffic sign misdirecting this many people, it would have been pulled down long ago." // via readwriteweb.com: https://web.archive.org/web/20100215124750/http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_google_failed_internet_meme.php https://web.archive.org/web/20100215124750/http://www.readwr...
  - aasasd 6y ago
    I'm a web programmer, and I use web search to navigate to my bank's site. Because there are probably hundreds of phishers waiting for me to mistype a letter.
vcanales 6y ago
Since the lockdowns started, I switched from a MacBook as a daily driver to an iMac. I have missed the Touch Bar 0% of the time. I hadn't even thought about it as something that was "missing" until now.
sidsidsidsid 6y ago
The touch bar isn't very useful, and it's bad for things that you want to really be "keys" that you want to be able to touch type. But it's nice for some things. Volume and brightness slider. Emojis sometimes. Here's one use I found that I like: I sometimes work in the sunlight and want to switch to Light theme. I'm not aware of a nice convenient way to just toggle Light/Dark, so I found someone's instructions on how to bind a script that does that to a slot in the Touch Bar. Could that have been a keyboard shortcut? Sure, but I appreciate this option - kind of cool.
- donkeyd 6y ago
  I have a dedicated lock button on the touch bar, which I use multiple times a day in the office. It's also great for searching through video and trimming in Final Cut.

roland35 6y ago

The touch bar is an interesting concept, but I hardly use it as a new Mac user (got a MacBook pro for the first time ever this year), as cool as I thought it was at first. I wish it had a few features to improve the experience: - ability to lock an app. It would be nice to have zoom controls available like unmute when I don't have zoom window active - hard buttons, with led screens. This would make things like debugging easier where I need to hit the "step over" button repeatedly - easier customization without paid apps or scripting. I can only change a few defaults around

spanhandler 6y ago
I think the touchbar would have been vastly more useful as a companion app for iPhone and iPad. As implemented, I can't afford to become used to it even if I wanted to unless I plan to be not just on a Mac, but specifically on a MacBook Pro with no external keyboard most of the time.

ProbablyRyaan 6y ago

Having no stand-alone esc key is brutal (I know newer models have one now).

geerlingguy 6y ago
Having the esc key on my 2019 model is good. But I hate how the touch bar offers zero tactile feedback, and reacts to even the slightest brush from the edge of a finger. I've deleted all buttons except volume control and mute on mine, and I still end up inadvertently hitting mute sometimes when typing numbers and symbols.

mobilemidget 6y ago

I had to lookup 'aurality', but how does that relate to the Touch Bar? Just want to understand.

KingTen 6y ago
I guess because you can normally hear your keys clicking. I had to google it too
- mobilemidget 6y ago
  ah okay that kind of audible feedback, I don't know, I never miss, and the changing color is kind of clear imho

yreg 6y ago

I doubt the Touch bar will stay the same. It runs on a separate arm soc and it would seem terribly wastefull to keep all of that after the arm transition. So they'd have to put significant effort into it (to change the architecture to make it run on the new chip together with the system). I think they would do some major changes to it in this case. Or they can phase it out and say it paved the way for the new arm macs and that it is no longer needed (and keep the face, not admitting that it was a failure). Especially so if the 1st Apple silicon Macbook gen is already touch based. I hope they get rid of the Touch Bar during the transition. There were no WWDC sessions about it either.

KingTen 6y ago
God I hope they kill it
karmakaze 6y ago
I see this going the other way. All the keys will become a large touch/display area eventually. It wont me much worse since eventually we'll have dynamically morphing surfaces so the keys raise/depress and have tactile movements/vibrations/sounds. If history and trends have shown anything the future is more gimmicky not less, and useful bits come out of it from time to time. We'll be the generation to say "In my day keys were physically separate labelled and actually moved--crumbs getting inside were a real problem."
- yreg 6y ago
  Perhaps some day, but certainly not in the next gen. They have a bigger fish to fry, don't they?
jayd16 6y ago
I was thinking they would finally go touch screen and kill it. Maybe dock it at the bottom of the main screen.

GeekyBear 6y ago

>The existence of this thread, with no mention of the Touch Bar yet, but we're seeing keen enthusiasm over shortcuts with as much as 3 keyboard keys involved, demonstrates exactly how useless the gimmick of the Touch Bar is. For the vast majority of users, the shortcuts we all know and love might as well not exist. >About 90 per cent of computer users don't use CTRL-F to search for a word - as they don't know such a keyboard shortcut exists, a Google survey found. The results stunned Google's Uber Tech Lead for Search Quality and User Happiness, Dan Russell. "I think we just all assume that we all know it, but no one actually does." https://www.smh.com.au/technology/only-one-in-10-know-what-ctrlf-does--here-are-shortcuts-you-should-know-20111130-1o69d.html https://www.smh.com.au/technology/only-one-in-10-know-what-c... This specific audience is exactly the wrong group to ask about the utility of the touch bar, since we are in the tiny minority who find traditional function keys to be useful.

Terretta 6y ago
Tech bubble and Google were similarly chagrined to realize normals used SERPs to navigate to web sites when organic results didn't have the site itself top of the list and users were ending up at places that confused them. From Feb 15, 2010: "Suddenly, the two worlds collided. The tech savvy ran head-on into the tech illiterate and mockery and disbelief started to overtake confusion as the general tone..." "While we mock those users, the simple fact is they haven't necessarily failed, something failed them. With all of our talk about the semantic Web and search engine optimization and tailoring search results to the individual user, there are thousands upon thousands of users performing the same simple search and following the same wrong road. If this were a standard traffic sign misdirecting this many people, it would have been pulled down long ago." // via readwriteweb.com: https://web.archive.org/web/20100215124750/http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_google_failed_internet_meme.php https://web.archive.org/web/20100215124750/http://www.readwr...
- aasasd 6y ago
  I'm a web programmer, and I use web search to navigate to my bank's site. Because there are probably hundreds of phishers waiting for me to mistype a letter.

vcanales 6y ago

Since the lockdowns started, I switched from a MacBook as a daily driver to an iMac. I have missed the Touch Bar 0% of the time. I hadn't even thought about it as something that was "missing" until now.

sidsidsidsid 6y ago

The touch bar isn't very useful, and it's bad for things that you want to really be "keys" that you want to be able to touch type. But it's nice for some things. Volume and brightness slider. Emojis sometimes. Here's one use I found that I like: I sometimes work in the sunlight and want to switch to Light theme. I'm not aware of a nice convenient way to just toggle Light/Dark, so I found someone's instructions on how to bind a script that does that to a slot in the Touch Bar. Could that have been a keyboard shortcut? Sure, but I appreciate this option - kind of cool.

donkeyd 6y ago
I have a dedicated lock button on the touch bar, which I use multiple times a day in the office. It's also great for searching through video and trimming in Final Cut.