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And a clear win for democratic governments who do not send dissenters to re-training camps. From a competitive landscape, yes it sucks. But Huawei / China need

And a clear win for democratic governments who do not send dissenters to re-training camps. From a competitive landscape, yes it sucks. But Huawei / China needs to be punished for its blatant IP theft, I think this is a great place to start.

greatpatton 6y ago
At the same time the US caused (directly/indirectly) the death of 400-800k people in Iraq. Somehow there is a double standard regarding human rights. China is despicable but I think that the moral ground of the US regarding this kind of issue is quite shaky.
- greatjack613 6y ago
  We are a democratic country, don't support a war, vote for someone in office who does not support it. China on the other hand if you don't support putting muslims in concentration camps, you end up there yourself
  - robert_foss 6y ago
    I don't think there was a vote for invading Iraq, or any of the other countries targeted by the wrecking ball that is US hegemony. Yes China is quite flawed, but this attempt at maintaining the status quo really only serves to halt progress.
    - greatjack613 6y ago
      Please don't be pedantic, We do not have votes on whether the president should sneeze into a tissue or a paper towel, but yes, the president that decided to go to war was voted in by the majority of the population. Please do not try to push the CCP's propaganda by knocking the United States, it only ends one way, and that is all of us being slaves to winnie the pooh
      - minhazm 6y ago
        > the president that decided to go to war was voted in by the majority of the population. Not actually true since Bush lost the popular vote in the 2000 election.
        minerjoe 6y ago
        And don't forget that majority of eligible voters don't vote.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > the president that decided to go to war was voted in by the majority of the population. “A majority of the electoral college, representing a second-place minority of the eligible individuals casting ballots for Presidential electors”, if you want to be accurate, but certainly not a “majority of the population” or even “a majority of voters in the general election”, and not even “a plurality of voters in the general election”.
        sudosysgen 6y ago
        *a majority of the electoral college, representing a second-place minority of eligible individuals casting ballots for Presidential electors, selected one of the two candidates put forwards by the private corporations that decide every four years of a different process to select either of the two candidates, and that are not legally required to hold or respect the results of primaries
      - jessaustin 6y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Clause You don't see any possibility that informed criticism of USA policy of undeclared and unprovoked war might lead to better policy? American pacifists shouldn't argue for peace? Shouldn't vote for peace? If that is your position, don't be surprised when we put an end to the Union... all of humanity will benefit, but 3.5% of humanity will be sad for a moment.
      - renewiltord 6y ago
  - peacefulhat 6y ago
    Overwhelming majorities in both parties voted to authorize the war in Iraq. In fact, every democrat presidential nominee other than Obama since 2004 voted for Iraq.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    The US is not a true democracy. The voting system is such that there can never be more than two parties that have any chance of winning at all. Meanwhile, both of the two parties are legally private corporations that are allowed to select candidates any way they choose. As a consequence, if those in control of both parties want something (which was the case for the Iraq War), there is absolutely no way for the people to vote against it. This is without even talking about how consent is manufactured.
- robert_foss 6y ago
  Couldn't agree more.
- bassman9000 6y ago
  "I'm not racist, but..."
- jimmaswell 6y ago
  Being engaged in a war and China's human rights abuses aren't comparable at all.
nicoburns 6y ago
You act as if the US doesn't do this. But it has the highest incarceration rates in the world, often for petty crimes like smoking weed. And it also puts prisoners to work.
- greatjack613 6y ago
  Through a system of judgement by peers, not a morally corrupt dictator
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    Eh, I do think the US is probably slightly better than China in this regard. The camps for uighur muslims in China sound absolutely awful. But the US system is anything but fair. There have been hundreds of stories from Black Americans in the last few months about how unfairly they're treated.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    not sure if that was the intention, but that's not exactly an endorsement of the American people
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      The claims that we voted for any of the last 14 stupid wars didn't cover us in glory either.
  - bllguo 6y ago
    why does that matter if the outcomes are comparably despicable? In fact that seems _more_ damning to the US people
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - gruez 6y ago
      >why does that matter if the outcomes are comparably despicable How are they comparable? The black incarceration rate in the US is around 2.3%[1], meanwhile the incarceration rate for Uyghurs is estimated to be around 10%-15%[2][3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China

greatpatton 6y ago

At the same time the US caused (directly/indirectly) the death of 400-800k people in Iraq. Somehow there is a double standard regarding human rights. China is despicable but I think that the moral ground of the US regarding this kind of issue is quite shaky.

greatjack613 6y ago
We are a democratic country, don't support a war, vote for someone in office who does not support it. China on the other hand if you don't support putting muslims in concentration camps, you end up there yourself
- robert_foss 6y ago
  I don't think there was a vote for invading Iraq, or any of the other countries targeted by the wrecking ball that is US hegemony. Yes China is quite flawed, but this attempt at maintaining the status quo really only serves to halt progress.
  - greatjack613 6y ago
    Please don't be pedantic, We do not have votes on whether the president should sneeze into a tissue or a paper towel, but yes, the president that decided to go to war was voted in by the majority of the population. Please do not try to push the CCP's propaganda by knocking the United States, it only ends one way, and that is all of us being slaves to winnie the pooh
    - minhazm 6y ago
      > the president that decided to go to war was voted in by the majority of the population. Not actually true since Bush lost the popular vote in the 2000 election.
      - minerjoe 6y ago
        And don't forget that majority of eligible voters don't vote.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > the president that decided to go to war was voted in by the majority of the population. “A majority of the electoral college, representing a second-place minority of the eligible individuals casting ballots for Presidential electors”, if you want to be accurate, but certainly not a “majority of the population” or even “a majority of voters in the general election”, and not even “a plurality of voters in the general election”.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        *a majority of the electoral college, representing a second-place minority of eligible individuals casting ballots for Presidential electors, selected one of the two candidates put forwards by the private corporations that decide every four years of a different process to select either of the two candidates, and that are not legally required to hold or respect the results of primaries
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Clause You don't see any possibility that informed criticism of USA policy of undeclared and unprovoked war might lead to better policy? American pacifists shouldn't argue for peace? Shouldn't vote for peace? If that is your position, don't be surprised when we put an end to the Union... all of humanity will benefit, but 3.5% of humanity will be sad for a moment.
    - renewiltord 6y ago
- peacefulhat 6y ago
  Overwhelming majorities in both parties voted to authorize the war in Iraq. In fact, every democrat presidential nominee other than Obama since 2004 voted for Iraq.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  The US is not a true democracy. The voting system is such that there can never be more than two parties that have any chance of winning at all. Meanwhile, both of the two parties are legally private corporations that are allowed to select candidates any way they choose. As a consequence, if those in control of both parties want something (which was the case for the Iraq War), there is absolutely no way for the people to vote against it. This is without even talking about how consent is manufactured.
robert_foss 6y ago
Couldn't agree more.
bassman9000 6y ago
"I'm not racist, but..."
jimmaswell 6y ago
Being engaged in a war and China's human rights abuses aren't comparable at all.

nicoburns 6y ago

You act as if the US doesn't do this. But it has the highest incarceration rates in the world, often for petty crimes like smoking weed. And it also puts prisoners to work.

greatjack613 6y ago
Through a system of judgement by peers, not a morally corrupt dictator
- nicoburns 6y ago
  Eh, I do think the US is probably slightly better than China in this regard. The camps for uighur muslims in China sound absolutely awful. But the US system is anything but fair. There have been hundreds of stories from Black Americans in the last few months about how unfairly they're treated.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  not sure if that was the intention, but that's not exactly an endorsement of the American people
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    The claims that we voted for any of the last 14 stupid wars didn't cover us in glory either.
- bllguo 6y ago
  why does that matter if the outcomes are comparably despicable? In fact that seems _more_ damning to the US people
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - gruez 6y ago
    >why does that matter if the outcomes are comparably despicable How are they comparable? The black incarceration rate in the US is around 2.3%[1], meanwhile the incarceration rate for Uyghurs is estimated to be around 10%-15%[2][3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China