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GP is talking about cultural power, not political power. Look around you and you'll see so much: - affirmative action which sees white males as "above" other r

GP is talking about cultural power, not political power. Look around you and you'll see so much: - affirmative action which sees white males as "above" other races, so "compensates" for others - being told they're the root of all evil - being told they can't "punch down" - even though this is a white supremacist viewpoint because it's putting one race over all others - being told colourblind-ness is racist I want to be peers with all races and genders, not divided over silly lines.

zimpenfish 6y ago
> GP is talking about cultural power, not political power. And yet where do the life and death decisions get made? In political arenas, not cultural ones. > - being told they're the root of all evil For a long time, they were. (Trust me, I'm English, I'm painfully aware of this.) Many of them in power still are - just look at the GOP, for example, or UKGOV. > - being told they can't "punch down" I mean, "punching down" is bad no matter who does it. > - being told colourblind-ness is racist Because it's still picking a side - "I don't want to get involved" is just an implicit picking of the side with the most power.
- throwaways885 6y ago
  > And yet where do the life and death decisions get made? In political arenas, not cultural ones. Look at the UK government demographics. The cabinet especially is more diverse than the actual general population. > For a long time, they were. (Trust me, I'm English, I'm painfully aware of this.) Many of them in power still are - just look at the GOP, for example, or UKGOV. I'm English too and this is a complete mischaracterisation of our cultural history. You can't judge the past by today's standards. To do so is childish and un-empathic. Remember, the British were the one to end slavery because our culture battled with this opposing idea (it goes against our core belief in individual freedom) for a long time. Not to mention, every single culture on Earth would've done exactly the same if they had the chance. > I mean, "punching down" is bad no matter who does it. You're missing my point. Saying that white people are punching down is racist, because it implies a hierarchy where white people are on top. It's a white supremacist viewpoint, albeit with a guilty conscience. > Because it's still picking a side - "I don't want to get involved" is just an implicit picking of the side with the most power. No - you don't get to judge people for staying out of this shit flinging contest going on in today's politics. Most people just do not care and they never will.
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    > Look at the UK government demographics. I will concede that the current UKGov is less white male than it has been but UK politics has always been much more progressive in that regard. > You can't judge the past by today's standards. In some aspects, absolutely. In things like "did they invade, subjugate, enslave, and pillage?", you absolutely can. Just because they didn't have porcelain toilets and lightbulbs doesn't mean what the British Empire got up to was ok, for example. > every single culture on Earth would've done exactly the same if they had the chance Not exactly a justification. > Saying that white people are punching down is racist, because it implies a hierarchy where white people are on top. In terms of political, cultural, etc. power, they are, that's the point - you don't pick on people with less power than you (see also: British Empire.) > you don't get to judge people for staying out of this shit flinging contest going on in today's politics. Of course you do. "It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing." (Reverend Charles Frederic Aked, 1916)
    - throwaways885 6y ago
      > In some aspects, absolutely. In things like "did they invade, subjugate, enslave, and pillage?", you absolutely can. Just because they didn't have porcelain toilets and lightbulbs doesn't mean what the British Empire got up to was ok, for example. I'm not going to excuse these things. What I will let slide is that it was individuals who did this, not "white males". I think associating race and gender with a particular ideology is deeply harmful to our culture, especially when those people were products of their time. They didn't know any differently. > In terms of political, cultural, etc. power, they are, that's the point - you don't pick on people with less power than you (see also: British Empire.) I guess we just disagree. I don't believe a person of colour has any more or less 'power' than me, solely based on racial divide. What is a problem in our society is class divide, but that isn't related to race. Or are you going to suggest I'm move privileged than Will Smith (or another rich/famous/powerful person of colour)?

zimpenfish 6y ago

> GP is talking about cultural power, not political power. And yet where do the life and death decisions get made? In political arenas, not cultural ones. > - being told they're the root of all evil For a long time, they were. (Trust me, I'm English, I'm painfully aware of this.) Many of them in power still are - just look at the GOP, for example, or UKGOV. > - being told they can't "punch down" I mean, "punching down" is bad no matter who does it. > - being told colourblind-ness is racist Because it's still picking a side - "I don't want to get involved" is just an implicit picking of the side with the most power.

throwaways885 6y ago
> And yet where do the life and death decisions get made? In political arenas, not cultural ones. Look at the UK government demographics. The cabinet especially is more diverse than the actual general population. > For a long time, they were. (Trust me, I'm English, I'm painfully aware of this.) Many of them in power still are - just look at the GOP, for example, or UKGOV. I'm English too and this is a complete mischaracterisation of our cultural history. You can't judge the past by today's standards. To do so is childish and un-empathic. Remember, the British were the one to end slavery because our culture battled with this opposing idea (it goes against our core belief in individual freedom) for a long time. Not to mention, every single culture on Earth would've done exactly the same if they had the chance. > I mean, "punching down" is bad no matter who does it. You're missing my point. Saying that white people are punching down is racist, because it implies a hierarchy where white people are on top. It's a white supremacist viewpoint, albeit with a guilty conscience. > Because it's still picking a side - "I don't want to get involved" is just an implicit picking of the side with the most power. No - you don't get to judge people for staying out of this shit flinging contest going on in today's politics. Most people just do not care and they never will.
- zimpenfish 6y ago
  > Look at the UK government demographics. I will concede that the current UKGov is less white male than it has been but UK politics has always been much more progressive in that regard. > You can't judge the past by today's standards. In some aspects, absolutely. In things like "did they invade, subjugate, enslave, and pillage?", you absolutely can. Just because they didn't have porcelain toilets and lightbulbs doesn't mean what the British Empire got up to was ok, for example. > every single culture on Earth would've done exactly the same if they had the chance Not exactly a justification. > Saying that white people are punching down is racist, because it implies a hierarchy where white people are on top. In terms of political, cultural, etc. power, they are, that's the point - you don't pick on people with less power than you (see also: British Empire.) > you don't get to judge people for staying out of this shit flinging contest going on in today's politics. Of course you do. "It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing." (Reverend Charles Frederic Aked, 1916)
  - throwaways885 6y ago
    > In some aspects, absolutely. In things like "did they invade, subjugate, enslave, and pillage?", you absolutely can. Just because they didn't have porcelain toilets and lightbulbs doesn't mean what the British Empire got up to was ok, for example. I'm not going to excuse these things. What I will let slide is that it was individuals who did this, not "white males". I think associating race and gender with a particular ideology is deeply harmful to our culture, especially when those people were products of their time. They didn't know any differently. > In terms of political, cultural, etc. power, they are, that's the point - you don't pick on people with less power than you (see also: British Empire.) I guess we just disagree. I don't believe a person of colour has any more or less 'power' than me, solely based on racial divide. What is a problem in our society is class divide, but that isn't related to race. Or are you going to suggest I'm move privileged than Will Smith (or another rich/famous/powerful person of colour)?