4 ms·

"We don't want Chinese companies spying on Americans, that's OUR gig!"

lihan 6y ago
Lol
Galanwe 6y ago
As a European, all I see is US spying on everyone through their US companies/apps, and bullying other countries that try to so the same... Europe standing clueless in the middle, European council with an average age of 70ish not understanding what all the fuss is about.
- theredlion 6y ago
  Governments and companies are going to be spying on everybody either way thanks to technology. If asked, given the current state of these two entities, I would choose being spied on by the US government 100 out of 100 times over being spied on by the Chinese government.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    On the other hand, the Chinese have virtually no pull here, while the US has massive reach in Europe, including "cooperation" for all kinds of CIA operations, black sites etc. That's not because "we're friends", that because the provinces do what the empire commands. They'll issue a press release about being disgusted later though. What I'm trying to say: it's better to be spied on by somebody that can't kidnap you. The Chinese can't really kidnap you in Europe, the US very much can. And of course, the third option is preferred: don't be spied on by the US OR China, at least not to that degree. But that would require European Data Sovereignty, and that'll likely not go over well with the US, which is why the EU won't try.
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    As a Canadian, and one employed by a US HQ'd company, the US gov't has the power to mess with my life in more ways than the Chinese government does. So, no, if forced to I don't accept your choice. You might prefer being spied on by your own gov't, but I don't accept your gov't spying on me. I'm not going to China any time soon, but I need to cross the border to the US for work sometimes, and for pleasure sometimes, too. Since 9/11 that border has been an aggressive and hostile place marked by frequent highly authoritarian interventions and it has escalated even more under Trump. And its reach extends now onto our phones and thus into our private lives and this spying now extends online and profiles are being made of all sorts of people without them knowing. This has always happened, but its reach is far wider than before. Being flagged by the US gov't hurts me directly, China only indirectly. I don't trust the US federal regime, and neither should (most) Americans. EDIT: love being downvoted along with the other (European) comment. It's clear many Americans still don't get how their government behaves to its so-called allies. Ask Angela Merkel how she felt about having her phone tapped. Maybe the EU and other allies need to start randomly detaining US citizens with "strange names" or "suspicious profiles" and keeping them in rooms for hours, interrogate them, search their phones, then let them go with a smirk and a "have a nice day." Maybe then US citizens will understand how odious this is.
- supergirl 6y ago
  and us congress is much younger? europe does pretty well. they work on customer rights like privacy and legal returns period. startups don't take off because of lack of funding and that they are easily bought out by american big tech
- bigbizisverywyz 6y ago
  >European council with an average age of 70ish not understanding what all the fuss is about. I was curious about this and went to look: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/european-council/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/european-council/ I would say there's a very wide range of ages and experience there, but practically nobody is even 70 years old. However it is true that the EU as a whole doesn't really care that much about an overall digital strategy and would probably leave that up to each individual country - how they would react if e.g. Italy started aggressively protecting its home grown tech I'm not sure.

Lol

As a European, all I see is US spying on everyone through their US companies/apps, and bullying other countries that try to so the same... Europe standing clueless in the middle, European council with an average age of 70ish not understanding what all the fuss is about.

theredlion 6y ago
Governments and companies are going to be spying on everybody either way thanks to technology. If asked, given the current state of these two entities, I would choose being spied on by the US government 100 out of 100 times over being spied on by the Chinese government.
- luckylion 6y ago
  On the other hand, the Chinese have virtually no pull here, while the US has massive reach in Europe, including "cooperation" for all kinds of CIA operations, black sites etc. That's not because "we're friends", that because the provinces do what the empire commands. They'll issue a press release about being disgusted later though. What I'm trying to say: it's better to be spied on by somebody that can't kidnap you. The Chinese can't really kidnap you in Europe, the US very much can. And of course, the third option is preferred: don't be spied on by the US OR China, at least not to that degree. But that would require European Data Sovereignty, and that'll likely not go over well with the US, which is why the EU won't try.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  As a Canadian, and one employed by a US HQ'd company, the US gov't has the power to mess with my life in more ways than the Chinese government does. So, no, if forced to I don't accept your choice. You might prefer being spied on by your own gov't, but I don't accept your gov't spying on me. I'm not going to China any time soon, but I need to cross the border to the US for work sometimes, and for pleasure sometimes, too. Since 9/11 that border has been an aggressive and hostile place marked by frequent highly authoritarian interventions and it has escalated even more under Trump. And its reach extends now onto our phones and thus into our private lives and this spying now extends online and profiles are being made of all sorts of people without them knowing. This has always happened, but its reach is far wider than before. Being flagged by the US gov't hurts me directly, China only indirectly. I don't trust the US federal regime, and neither should (most) Americans. EDIT: love being downvoted along with the other (European) comment. It's clear many Americans still don't get how their government behaves to its so-called allies. Ask Angela Merkel how she felt about having her phone tapped. Maybe the EU and other allies need to start randomly detaining US citizens with "strange names" or "suspicious profiles" and keeping them in rooms for hours, interrogate them, search their phones, then let them go with a smirk and a "have a nice day." Maybe then US citizens will understand how odious this is.
supergirl 6y ago
and us congress is much younger? europe does pretty well. they work on customer rights like privacy and legal returns period. startups don't take off because of lack of funding and that they are easily bought out by american big tech
bigbizisverywyz 6y ago
>European council with an average age of 70ish not understanding what all the fuss is about. I was curious about this and went to look: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/european-council/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/european-council/ I would say there's a very wide range of ages and experience there, but practically nobody is even 70 years old. However it is true that the EU as a whole doesn't really care that much about an overall digital strategy and would probably leave that up to each individual country - how they would react if e.g. Italy started aggressively protecting its home grown tech I'm not sure.