3 ms·

Not sure why people downvote the above. Do they dispute the truth of the parent's statement? Google and Facebook were in fact active in China, until the 2009 Ur

Not sure why people downvote the above. Do they dispute the truth of the parent's statement? Google and Facebook were in fact active in China, until the 2009 Urumqi terrorist attacks happened. The Chinese government then asked for Facebook to release personal details of suspects. Facebook refused. They only got banned after that. The Chinese government installed new monitoring and censorship laws. Google didn't want to comply, so they got out. In both cases, those companies either voluntary got out, or got kicked, based on clear conditions. You can of course discuss whether those laws and conditions are ethical, but that is besides the point. In case of the current US bans, there are no conditions. Chinese companies get kicked and there is nothing they can comply to. Furthermore,the US govt is actively "encouraging" other countries to ban Chinese companies too. Recently they said Brazil would face "consequences" if they do not. Did China ever tell other countries to ban Facebook? And the US govt said that if Tiktok sells, they must pay a chunk of money to the govt, which is... Unusual. China didn't do anything like this.

mrjin 6y ago
Well, double standard obviously. Just in 2020, there are already quite a few cases that China did something deemed evil and some western country did something similar maybe almost the same but viewed as righteous. Then here comes the question, are there good evil and bad evil? If no, how to explain such a difference?
joyeuse6701 6y ago
I see your view, but I think you’re comparing a US company operating in China on equal footing with a Chinese company operating in the US which they aren’t either because of monopoly reasons, state backing, or cultural advantage (US company in China has to deal with Uighur backlash and censorship which is intolerable, but not so for Chinese businesses). We also can’t dismiss the nature of a law. A law may be sufficiently heinous that it loses its validity, which I think many Chinese laws qualify as they are so broad they are as some CCP members have stated, being like the sword of Damocles with the specific intent to terrorize and allow the government flexibility to do what it wants under the image of ‘rule of law’ which it obviously isn’t.
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
  Yes, the nature of the law shouldn't be dismissed. But don't you think it's up to the citizen of that country to judge the validity of that law, and not up to outsiders? Mass protests in China do happen. When people really are dissatisfied, they do speak up, and it does happen that the government listens. For example in 2019 there were mass protests in Guangdong about building a cemetery. People mass protested, some even vandalized and got arrested. But in the end, the peaceful protesters didn't get in trouble, and the government gave people what they wanted. https://mothership.sg/2019/12/news-china-protests-wenlou-huazhou-guangdong/ https://mothership.sg/2019/12/news-china-protests-wenlou-hua... The situation in China isn't as black & white, or as dystopian, as what many believe, even though there's still plenty of room for improvement.
  - kiba 6y ago
    The Chinese government only listen some of the time.
    - FooBarWidget 6y ago
      No doubt about that. Do you have a point?
FpUser 6y ago
>"Not sure why people downvote the above" Never let the facts get in a way of good story

mrjin 6y ago

Well, double standard obviously. Just in 2020, there are already quite a few cases that China did something deemed evil and some western country did something similar maybe almost the same but viewed as righteous. Then here comes the question, are there good evil and bad evil? If no, how to explain such a difference?

joyeuse6701 6y ago

I see your view, but I think you’re comparing a US company operating in China on equal footing with a Chinese company operating in the US which they aren’t either because of monopoly reasons, state backing, or cultural advantage (US company in China has to deal with Uighur backlash and censorship which is intolerable, but not so for Chinese businesses). We also can’t dismiss the nature of a law. A law may be sufficiently heinous that it loses its validity, which I think many Chinese laws qualify as they are so broad they are as some CCP members have stated, being like the sword of Damocles with the specific intent to terrorize and allow the government flexibility to do what it wants under the image of ‘rule of law’ which it obviously isn’t.

FooBarWidget 6y ago
Yes, the nature of the law shouldn't be dismissed. But don't you think it's up to the citizen of that country to judge the validity of that law, and not up to outsiders? Mass protests in China do happen. When people really are dissatisfied, they do speak up, and it does happen that the government listens. For example in 2019 there were mass protests in Guangdong about building a cemetery. People mass protested, some even vandalized and got arrested. But in the end, the peaceful protesters didn't get in trouble, and the government gave people what they wanted. https://mothership.sg/2019/12/news-china-protests-wenlou-huazhou-guangdong/ https://mothership.sg/2019/12/news-china-protests-wenlou-hua... The situation in China isn't as black & white, or as dystopian, as what many believe, even though there's still plenty of room for improvement.
- kiba 6y ago
  The Chinese government only listen some of the time.
  - FooBarWidget 6y ago
    No doubt about that. Do you have a point?

FpUser 6y ago

>"Not sure why people downvote the above" Never let the facts get in a way of good story