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Also most Linux/Windows shortcuts feel way more natural than on macOS For a new tab in chrome Ctlr + T is easily done on Linux/Windows. On macOS for Cmd + T yo

by gempir 6y ago

Also most Linux/Windows shortcuts feel way more natural than on macOS For a new tab in chrome Ctlr + T is easily done on Linux/Windows. On macOS for Cmd + T you need to weirdly bend your thumb under your hand while also hitting T somehow. Or you need to move your entire hand 2 columns of keyboard layout to the right to be able to hit cmd with your pinky.

diegof79 6y ago
I think that “feels natural” is not the right adjective to describe that it breaks your habits. With Apple keyboards the Cmd key is easy to access, I only had that problem using Windows keyboards. The Win key is not used much so some manufacturers make it smaller. I use Macs since 2007 and it “feels natural” to me, but this is because I’m used to Apple keyboards. For me the Ctrl key feels far away, and hitting Cmd plus key comes as the first reflex.
- projektfu 6y ago
  My favorite “feels natural” thing on Apple keyboards was putting raised dots on D and K, on the Keyboard II and Extended Keyboard II. This goes under the middle finger, just like on the numeric keypad. Eventually they relented and put the dots under F and J like the rest of the PCs.
  - macintux 6y ago
    Apple also, along with Sun, used to put the control key in the correct location. They finally caved and put caps lock there. PCs have a lot of crimes to answer for.
    - projektfu 6y ago
      The Apple IIplus Keyboard looked a lot like the ADM3a keyboard on the left side. Also in the placement of symbols.
    - cesarb 6y ago
      Putting the Caps Lock key above the Shift key came from typewriters, where it was a "Shift Lock" key (it physically locked the Shift key below it in the pressed position). If you have to blame something, blame typewriters.
- kps 6y ago
  Jef Raskin's 1994 article Intuitive equals familiar remains worth reading.
Hackbraten 6y ago
Spy from another planet with no opposable thumbs detected.
fabianmg 6y ago
In this forum you're going to get very very downvoted with anything that goes against Apple. Let's see. Unix - Ctrl + c Linux - Ctrl + c Win - Ctrl + c Mac - Option + c Clearly the standard and natural way is the Apple way of doing things...
- sbuk 6y ago
  Got nothing to do with it. Computing wasn't invented in 1990. Ctrl-c/v is a essentially a kludge introduced into Windows because the IBM Model M keyboard and similar didn't have a Meta key. It wasn't until Windows 3.1 that we see Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V being a 'thing'. Before then it was all about IBMs CUA. Apple had CMD-C/V/X on the Lisa 9 years before. I'm not sure what Xerox did on the Alto or if it even used keyboard shortcuts, but they did refer to the operation as Copy/Paste (coined by Larry Tesla who went on to work at Apple).
- bobthedino 6y ago
  But on Unix and Linux pressing Ctrl-C in a terminal will send SIGINT (unless special measures are taken by your terminal emulator). I think this another benefit of the Mac using Command-C for copy: when the UNIX-based Mac OS X was introduced you could copy from termainl windows without accidentally stopping the running program!
- kps 6y ago
  > Unix - Ctrl + c Which Unix would that be? The closest thing to a common Unix desktop environment, the Common Desktop Environment, didn't steal Control because they had enough sense to know that people needed it to type control characters. > Linux - Ctrl + c The Linux desktop crowd has always been obsessed with cloning Windows.
- danaris 6y ago
  Option-c types a ç character; the Mac doesn't (by default) use Option alone as a shortcut modifier key. You're thinking of Command.
pseudalopex 6y ago
Keyboards have modifier keys on both sides because you would have to stretch or move your fingers out of position to type most combinations with one hand. The Command keys on Mac keyboards are wider and closer to the center than the Alt or Windows keys on PC keyboards.
harshitaneja 6y ago
I felt the same when I initially shifted to macOS but even though I don't like a lot about macOS, this has grown on me. Cmd key is more centrally located on the keyboard and requires less flex in your hand to reach.
- spanhandler 6y ago
  I was a late switcher, only after 20ish years of Windows, Linux, and a little BeOS. I now wish everyone else would just copy apple’s layout exactly for their default English keyboard & system shortcuts. It’s way, way better. Let dwm users and such remap if they like, of course, but that should be the default. It’s so good it’s fair, so long as no one else has copied it (why not!?) to call it a feature, and one providing significant “stickiness” for their platform (ditto Preview—sometimes, it’s the little things that matter, if they’re done exceptionally well)
jbc1 6y ago
Cmd T is super comfortable. What do you mean somehow? The T is right there next to F, the default resting area for your index finger. Ctrl is the uncomfortable key. Requires bringing the pinky in to play.
robertoandred 6y ago
What? The Command key is instantly and reliably accessible with your thumb. The Control key is what's super awkward.

by gempir 6y ago

diegof79 6y ago

I think that “feels natural” is not the right adjective to describe that it breaks your habits. With Apple keyboards the Cmd key is easy to access, I only had that problem using Windows keyboards. The Win key is not used much so some manufacturers make it smaller. I use Macs since 2007 and it “feels natural” to me, but this is because I’m used to Apple keyboards. For me the Ctrl key feels far away, and hitting Cmd plus key comes as the first reflex.

projektfu 6y ago
My favorite “feels natural” thing on Apple keyboards was putting raised dots on D and K, on the Keyboard II and Extended Keyboard II. This goes under the middle finger, just like on the numeric keypad. Eventually they relented and put the dots under F and J like the rest of the PCs.
- macintux 6y ago
  Apple also, along with Sun, used to put the control key in the correct location. They finally caved and put caps lock there. PCs have a lot of crimes to answer for.
  - projektfu 6y ago
    The Apple IIplus Keyboard looked a lot like the ADM3a keyboard on the left side. Also in the placement of symbols.
  - cesarb 6y ago
    Putting the Caps Lock key above the Shift key came from typewriters, where it was a "Shift Lock" key (it physically locked the Shift key below it in the pressed position). If you have to blame something, blame typewriters.
kps 6y ago
Jef Raskin's 1994 article Intuitive equals familiar remains worth reading.

Hackbraten 6y ago

Spy from another planet with no opposable thumbs detected.

fabianmg 6y ago

In this forum you're going to get very very downvoted with anything that goes against Apple. Let's see. Unix - Ctrl + c Linux - Ctrl + c Win - Ctrl + c Mac - Option + c Clearly the standard and natural way is the Apple way of doing things...

sbuk 6y ago
Got nothing to do with it. Computing wasn't invented in 1990. Ctrl-c/v is a essentially a kludge introduced into Windows because the IBM Model M keyboard and similar didn't have a Meta key. It wasn't until Windows 3.1 that we see Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V being a 'thing'. Before then it was all about IBMs CUA. Apple had CMD-C/V/X on the Lisa 9 years before. I'm not sure what Xerox did on the Alto or if it even used keyboard shortcuts, but they did refer to the operation as Copy/Paste (coined by Larry Tesla who went on to work at Apple).
bobthedino 6y ago
But on Unix and Linux pressing Ctrl-C in a terminal will send SIGINT (unless special measures are taken by your terminal emulator). I think this another benefit of the Mac using Command-C for copy: when the UNIX-based Mac OS X was introduced you could copy from termainl windows without accidentally stopping the running program!
kps 6y ago
> Unix - Ctrl + c Which Unix would that be? The closest thing to a common Unix desktop environment, the Common Desktop Environment, didn't steal Control because they had enough sense to know that people needed it to type control characters. > Linux - Ctrl + c The Linux desktop crowd has always been obsessed with cloning Windows.
danaris 6y ago
Option-c types a ç character; the Mac doesn't (by default) use Option alone as a shortcut modifier key. You're thinking of Command.

pseudalopex 6y ago

Keyboards have modifier keys on both sides because you would have to stretch or move your fingers out of position to type most combinations with one hand. The Command keys on Mac keyboards are wider and closer to the center than the Alt or Windows keys on PC keyboards.

harshitaneja 6y ago

I felt the same when I initially shifted to macOS but even though I don't like a lot about macOS, this has grown on me. Cmd key is more centrally located on the keyboard and requires less flex in your hand to reach.

spanhandler 6y ago
I was a late switcher, only after 20ish years of Windows, Linux, and a little BeOS. I now wish everyone else would just copy apple’s layout exactly for their default English keyboard & system shortcuts. It’s way, way better. Let dwm users and such remap if they like, of course, but that should be the default. It’s so good it’s fair, so long as no one else has copied it (why not!?) to call it a feature, and one providing significant “stickiness” for their platform (ditto Preview—sometimes, it’s the little things that matter, if they’re done exceptionally well)

jbc1 6y ago

Cmd T is super comfortable. What do you mean somehow? The T is right there next to F, the default resting area for your index finger. Ctrl is the uncomfortable key. Requires bringing the pinky in to play.

robertoandred 6y ago

What? The Command key is instantly and reliably accessible with your thumb. The Control key is what's super awkward.