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> if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way It can be a real threat to national security[1]: > Thursday's order alleges that TikTok "a

by krn 6y ago

> if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way It can be a real threat to national security[1]: > Thursday's order alleges that TikTok "automatically captures vast swaths of information from its users," such as location data and browsing and search histories, which "threatens to allow the Chinese Communist Party access to Americans' personal and proprietary information -- potentially allowing China to track the locations of Federal employees and contractors, build dossiers of personal information for blackmail, and conduct corporate espionage." It has nothing to do with other Western nations. It's about protecting your citizens from aggressive foreign states that operate based on completely different values. I would consider going even further, and banning all Chinese researchers from the top US schools[2]: > Seventy-one institutions, including many of the most prestigious medical schools in the United States, are now investigating 180 individual cases involving potential theft of intellectual property. > Almost all of the incidents they uncovered and that are under investigation involve scientists of Chinese descent, including naturalized American citizens, allegedly stealing for China. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/politics/trump-executive-order-tiktok/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/politics/trump-executive-orde... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/health/china-nih-scientists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/health/china-nih-scientis...

CameronNemo 6y ago
The source you linked contains no concrete evidence that TikTok poses a greater risk to national security than similar US based social networks.
- krn 6y ago
  How can "similar US based social networks" pose a national security risk to the US? They might pose a national security risk to China. And that's why all the US-based social networks are banned in China. Also, the US intelligence agencies could have just validated these public claims by themselves[1]: > For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does, and they sure as hell aren't outright trying to hide exactly whats being sent like TikTok is. It's like comparing a cup of water to the ocean - they just don't compare. And the US and India are not the only countries with deep concerns here. The investigations into TikTok's data collection practices have also been launched by the governments of Australia, Japan, Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, and the EU[2]. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news_but_tbh_if_you_have_tiktiok_just_get/ https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/08/03/its-not-just-united-states-these-governments-see-tiktok-growing-problem/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/08/03/its-not-just...
  - asa4akj 6y ago
    they pose smaller risk, as they sell data to china. But that can simply be outlawed with something like GDPR, without a big drama, unlike a ban
  - xvector 6y ago
    None of your sources provide any concrete evidence. Right now all you’ve linked to is xenophobic fearmongering unsupported by any data whatsoever. Show me the Frida or Wireshark logs showing that TikTok collects more than, say Facebook. Link to actual evidence that China uses it to spy on Americans.
    - krn 6y ago
      > None of your sources provide any concrete evidence. > Link to actual evidence that China uses it to spy on Americans. That's not how national intelligence works, I'm afraid. The actual evidence is often provided only to the decision makers, and not to the general population. And even if TikTok wasn't doing anything wrong at the moment, the risk assessment might have concluded, that it could technically turn into a national security nightmare overnight.
      - floatboth 6y ago
        Yeah, national stupidity works by giving ridiculous power to tech illiterate people that don't even know how Android and iOS sandboxes and permissions work.
        krn 6y ago
        Are you arguing that the national intelligence agencies of the US are incapable to properly assess technical national security risks? Or that it is completely impossible that any widely distributed proprietary software developed in China could pose any national security risks?
        hackernewsconvo 6y ago
villahousut 6y ago
I'm using Tiktok on my iPhone and I can't even find an option to allow access to my location? I'm pretty sure any Apps can't access my browsers or search history either..?
- asa4akj 6y ago
  iPhone is a locked device. Nothing stops apple from actually not giving you that option for particular apps and you would know nothing about it.
readme 6y ago
bingo not a lot of people are indoctrinated into the world of national security, and because of that they just balk at it there's a lot going on in the world, and it's not a big happy place where everyone are friends, to put it bluntly china has other motives, I think a quick google should at least clue one in their corporate espionage activities
- krn 6y ago
  It is not the first time I am surprised by the complete unawareness of the world of national security in the US tech industry: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655803
  - not_that_jeff 6y ago
    if you believe that story, I believe you dont have the competency to work on a tech job. Go read some book in electronic engineering.
- pjc50 6y ago
  > indoctrinated This is not normally a word with positive connotations. Because the US is a free speech country, people can be aware that quite a lot of stuff done in the name of national security, especially since 9/11, is highly questionable. And the current administration has its own national security questions to answer relating to Russia.

by krn 6y ago

CameronNemo 6y ago

The source you linked contains no concrete evidence that TikTok poses a greater risk to national security than similar US based social networks.

krn 6y ago
How can "similar US based social networks" pose a national security risk to the US? They might pose a national security risk to China. And that's why all the US-based social networks are banned in China. Also, the US intelligence agencies could have just validated these public claims by themselves[1]: > For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does, and they sure as hell aren't outright trying to hide exactly whats being sent like TikTok is. It's like comparing a cup of water to the ocean - they just don't compare. And the US and India are not the only countries with deep concerns here. The investigations into TikTok's data collection practices have also been launched by the governments of Australia, Japan, Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, and the EU[2]. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news_but_tbh_if_you_have_tiktiok_just_get/ https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/08/03/its-not-just-united-states-these-governments-see-tiktok-growing-problem/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/08/03/its-not-just...
- asa4akj 6y ago
  they pose smaller risk, as they sell data to china. But that can simply be outlawed with something like GDPR, without a big drama, unlike a ban
- xvector 6y ago
  None of your sources provide any concrete evidence. Right now all you’ve linked to is xenophobic fearmongering unsupported by any data whatsoever. Show me the Frida or Wireshark logs showing that TikTok collects more than, say Facebook. Link to actual evidence that China uses it to spy on Americans.
  - krn 6y ago
    > None of your sources provide any concrete evidence. > Link to actual evidence that China uses it to spy on Americans. That's not how national intelligence works, I'm afraid. The actual evidence is often provided only to the decision makers, and not to the general population. And even if TikTok wasn't doing anything wrong at the moment, the risk assessment might have concluded, that it could technically turn into a national security nightmare overnight.
    - floatboth 6y ago
      Yeah, national stupidity works by giving ridiculous power to tech illiterate people that don't even know how Android and iOS sandboxes and permissions work.
      - krn 6y ago
        Are you arguing that the national intelligence agencies of the US are incapable to properly assess technical national security risks? Or that it is completely impossible that any widely distributed proprietary software developed in China could pose any national security risks?
        hackernewsconvo 6y ago

villahousut 6y ago

I'm using Tiktok on my iPhone and I can't even find an option to allow access to my location? I'm pretty sure any Apps can't access my browsers or search history either..?

asa4akj 6y ago
iPhone is a locked device. Nothing stops apple from actually not giving you that option for particular apps and you would know nothing about it.

readme 6y ago

bingo not a lot of people are indoctrinated into the world of national security, and because of that they just balk at it there's a lot going on in the world, and it's not a big happy place where everyone are friends, to put it bluntly china has other motives, I think a quick google should at least clue one in their corporate espionage activities

krn 6y ago
It is not the first time I am surprised by the complete unawareness of the world of national security in the US tech industry: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655803
- not_that_jeff 6y ago
  if you believe that story, I believe you dont have the competency to work on a tech job. Go read some book in electronic engineering.
pjc50 6y ago
> indoctrinated This is not normally a word with positive connotations. Because the US is a free speech country, people can be aware that quite a lot of stuff done in the name of national security, especially since 9/11, is highly questionable. And the current administration has its own national security questions to answer relating to Russia.