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> Those companies are free to operate in China if the comply with Chinese law. Which will never happen. The Chinese know that Western companies would never wan

> Those companies are free to operate in China if the comply with Chinese law. Which will never happen. The Chinese know that Western companies would never want to comply with the Chinese law because the law was purposefully designed in such a way as to benefit the totalitarian regime. So they were forced to quit China. This is nothing but an indirect ban. This is very common actually. For example: India imposed a 200% tariff on all Pakistani goods instead of banning them after the Pulwama Terror Attack [1]. Why not outright ban them? Because of global trade rules that prohibit taking such measures. So imposing a 200% tariff would effectively mean a ban only. No one in their right mind would import goods/services at 200% import duty. This is what Chinese were doing to US companies the past decade. Which is why US companies left China in the first place. Because staying around and doing business in China became untenable. [1]: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/india-hikes-customs-duty-to-200-pc-on-all-goods-imported-from-pakistan/articleshow/68026919.cms?from=mdr https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/ind...

knolax 6y ago
Microsoft complies with those laws just fine. Bing, Windows, Office are all available there.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Windows and Office are neutral applications. They're not social communication or information platforms. And hardly anyone uses Bing in China.
  - burfog 6y ago
    They are not neutral applications. Windows has settings for timezone, language, currency, and more. Using the software sold in China, can you choose Taiwan or is it called Chinese Taipei? What do the maps show for the South China Sea, for the border with India, and for Tibet?
  - em500 6y ago
    Skype / Microsoft Teams and iMessage work in China. So being American owned communicators / subject to American espionage are not sufficient to get banned in China.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - jjcc 6y ago
    You are right. Anything that is not likely cause ideological polarization would be free to make money in China. So it's not really economical motivated policy as the narrative from the White House
- shripadk 6y ago
  Are you sure about that? Microsoft is in big trouble in China too. This is the problem with a totalitarian state. Laws can be modified at will. You don't take the people into confidence. What is acceptable today may not be tomorrow. You are always on your toes. You may be favorable today dining with the highest authorities, tomorrow you will be on the streets. It is that merciless. US companies have literally been used and thrown out. That is a fact. But US realized the game too late. People started taking the Chinese threat seriously only when Trump raised the issue in his election campaigns. Microsoft, HP and Dell will probably be the final casualties in this ongoing battle between US and China. An article from December 2019. When the pandemic was in its initial stages and China was keeping it all under wraps. China had already decided to dump US companies way back then. US is more reactionary just like India. China fooled the World. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/09/china-reportedly-orders-state-offices-to-remove-foreign-tech.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/09/china-reportedly-orders-stat... Quoting directly from the article: China’s Communist Party has ordered all state offices to remove foreign hardware and software within three years, the Financial Times reported, in a move which could hit major U.S. firms including Microsoft, Dell and HP. The policy has been dubbed “3-5-2” because the replacement of the technology will happen at a pace of 30% in 2020, 50% in 2021, and 20% in 2022, the newspaper said, citing a note from brokerage firm China Securities. Analysts there estimate that 20 million to 30 million pieces of foreign equipment need to be replaced in China. ... “Discrimination against foreign technology has been a part of the policy framework in China for years now, but it’s something that USTR (United States Trade Representative) is already familiar with,” Marro told CNBC. “This might nevertheless complicate the discussions around Huawei, ZTE and other companies in terms of their access to the U.S. market. Much of the popular narrative has centered around the U.S. unfairly banning these Chinese companies from its market; at least with this story, the administration can publicly play the blame game of, ‘well, China’s doing it too, and they’ve been doing it for a long time.’” U.S. companies like Google and Facebook have been blocked from operating in China for several years.
  - knolax 6y ago
    > This is the problem with a totalitarian state. Laws can be modified at will Did you forget what TFA is about? It's about the president blanket banning two apps with no warning and no real justification. > U.S. companies like Google and Facebook have been blocked from operating in China for several years. That's the point. Facebook and Google decided not to follow thebrelevant censorship laws and are banned, Microsoft did and also turned over source code for security reasons (like the Huawei did in the UK). They aren't banned. Am I talking to a Markov chain? It honestly just seems like you copy pasted some response you had saved up without consideration for context. EDIT: reply to reply below TFA stands for The Fucking Article. Your account is 10 years old. There's no way you actually don't know what that stands for. > Microsoft did and it still is in trouble. They're "in trouble" after the country they're based in started ordering their companies to stop supplying critical parts/software to whichever random Chinese company the president feels threatened by at the moment.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

knolax 6y ago

Microsoft complies with those laws just fine. Bing, Windows, Office are all available there.

chrisco255 6y ago
Windows and Office are neutral applications. They're not social communication or information platforms. And hardly anyone uses Bing in China.
- burfog 6y ago
  They are not neutral applications. Windows has settings for timezone, language, currency, and more. Using the software sold in China, can you choose Taiwan or is it called Chinese Taipei? What do the maps show for the South China Sea, for the border with India, and for Tibet?
- em500 6y ago
  Skype / Microsoft Teams and iMessage work in China. So being American owned communicators / subject to American espionage are not sufficient to get banned in China.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jjcc 6y ago
  You are right. Anything that is not likely cause ideological polarization would be free to make money in China. So it's not really economical motivated policy as the narrative from the White House
shripadk 6y ago
Are you sure about that? Microsoft is in big trouble in China too. This is the problem with a totalitarian state. Laws can be modified at will. You don't take the people into confidence. What is acceptable today may not be tomorrow. You are always on your toes. You may be favorable today dining with the highest authorities, tomorrow you will be on the streets. It is that merciless. US companies have literally been used and thrown out. That is a fact. But US realized the game too late. People started taking the Chinese threat seriously only when Trump raised the issue in his election campaigns. Microsoft, HP and Dell will probably be the final casualties in this ongoing battle between US and China. An article from December 2019. When the pandemic was in its initial stages and China was keeping it all under wraps. China had already decided to dump US companies way back then. US is more reactionary just like India. China fooled the World. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/09/china-reportedly-orders-state-offices-to-remove-foreign-tech.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/09/china-reportedly-orders-stat... Quoting directly from the article: China’s Communist Party has ordered all state offices to remove foreign hardware and software within three years, the Financial Times reported, in a move which could hit major U.S. firms including Microsoft, Dell and HP. The policy has been dubbed “3-5-2” because the replacement of the technology will happen at a pace of 30% in 2020, 50% in 2021, and 20% in 2022, the newspaper said, citing a note from brokerage firm China Securities. Analysts there estimate that 20 million to 30 million pieces of foreign equipment need to be replaced in China. ... “Discrimination against foreign technology has been a part of the policy framework in China for years now, but it’s something that USTR (United States Trade Representative) is already familiar with,” Marro told CNBC. “This might nevertheless complicate the discussions around Huawei, ZTE and other companies in terms of their access to the U.S. market. Much of the popular narrative has centered around the U.S. unfairly banning these Chinese companies from its market; at least with this story, the administration can publicly play the blame game of, ‘well, China’s doing it too, and they’ve been doing it for a long time.’” U.S. companies like Google and Facebook have been blocked from operating in China for several years.
- knolax 6y ago
  > This is the problem with a totalitarian state. Laws can be modified at will Did you forget what TFA is about? It's about the president blanket banning two apps with no warning and no real justification. > U.S. companies like Google and Facebook have been blocked from operating in China for several years. That's the point. Facebook and Google decided not to follow thebrelevant censorship laws and are banned, Microsoft did and also turned over source code for security reasons (like the Huawei did in the UK). They aren't banned. Am I talking to a Markov chain? It honestly just seems like you copy pasted some response you had saved up without consideration for context. EDIT: reply to reply below TFA stands for The Fucking Article. Your account is 10 years old. There's no way you actually don't know what that stands for. > Microsoft did and it still is in trouble. They're "in trouble" after the country they're based in started ordering their companies to stop supplying critical parts/software to whichever random Chinese company the president feels threatened by at the moment.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]