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The Chinese government isn't made up of nice people by any stretch but it's vitally important to understand their position so as to avoid escalation, possibly i

The Chinese government isn't made up of nice people by any stretch but it's vitally important to understand their position so as to avoid escalation, possibly into armed conflict in future decades. They have every reason to view the survival of their tech sector as a vital economic security interest. Confiscating the value of their foreign tech assets without cause, or legitimate due process, will not make the Chinese change their behavior. It will only harden their position and make future conflict more likely because the US has demonstrated that it is not willing to respect the rule of law or act in good faith towards Chinese businesses. Slow-walking into another cold war isn't in anyone's interest and the deplorable behavior of the Chinese government does not change this.

fastball 6y ago
Yes, and Hitler was just trying to shore up the German economy after a disastrous couple decades. Good thing Europe did such a good job appeasing him and not being confrontational – it would've really sucked if there had been a WWII.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pms 6y ago
  Are you talking about the US? The US has started more wars and killed more people in the last 20 years than China. It spends on military half of what all countries together spend on this planet. Under Trump, things only worsened: the country is becoming more nationalist and is exerting its power for its own interests, while rejecting international agreements.
  - fastball 6y ago
    The reason people are being killed is supremely relevant in such a discussion.
    - pms 6y ago
      Do you mean reasons such as alleged weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to not exist? Such reasons are enough to warrant killing 500k people? Isn't 500k people dead a mass destruction? Just look at the reality.
JohnTClark 6y ago
So what is the other option? We stay in the abusive relationship just out of fear of confrontation? How about we take care of our interests and if cold war starts we make sure we win it.
- bleepblorp 6y ago
  I don't know if there are any good options at this point. The general position from the US national security elite is that China should not be permitted to become powerful enough to have a completely independent foreign policy. This goal is probably impossible to achieve even trough military force. For China's part, the Chinese need to learn how to get along with the rest of the world, including their immediate neighbors, without threatening other countries on a regular basis. The kind of respect China wants on the world stage can only be created through non-coercive soft power, and that's a skill the Chinese do not have. Ultimately, I think both the US and China need to temper their expectations and learn to live with each other. This may not be politically possible in the long term, and is not politically possible in the US under Republican administrations. In the short term, US moves to destroy Chinese tech firms and effectively transfer their assets to US firms are not helpful for global stability. Chinese tech has no business in government networks, but consumer use of TikTok, WeChat, and Huawei phones is not a security threat and the rule of law should be respected with regard to these brands. If the US doesn't want people to use these tools, then it can make better alternatives. Pervasive privacy abuses by TikTok et el should be addressed through comprehensive privacy legislation that applies equally to US surveillance capitalism firms (e.g. Facebook) and not through bans that exist only to transfer Chinese market share to US firms.
  - TheColorYellow 6y ago
    I wholeheartedly agree with everything you're saying and think this is excellent analysis. However, I struggle with this part. > In the short term, US moves to destroy Chinese tech firms and effectively transfer their assets to US firms are not helpful for global stability. I can concede that this action by the US doesn't help move the US-China relationship into a more cooperative one. To your point, however, the US is not willing to move into such a position anyways. So, given the US desire to effect change in their existing US-China relationship, why should the US let things like Huawei and TikTok proceed? It's pretty much par for the course as far as US foreign business relations and policy created by the executive branch.

fastball 6y ago

Yes, and Hitler was just trying to shore up the German economy after a disastrous couple decades. Good thing Europe did such a good job appeasing him and not being confrontational – it would've really sucked if there had been a WWII.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pms 6y ago
Are you talking about the US? The US has started more wars and killed more people in the last 20 years than China. It spends on military half of what all countries together spend on this planet. Under Trump, things only worsened: the country is becoming more nationalist and is exerting its power for its own interests, while rejecting international agreements.
- fastball 6y ago
  The reason people are being killed is supremely relevant in such a discussion.
  - pms 6y ago
    Do you mean reasons such as alleged weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to not exist? Such reasons are enough to warrant killing 500k people? Isn't 500k people dead a mass destruction? Just look at the reality.

JohnTClark 6y ago

So what is the other option? We stay in the abusive relationship just out of fear of confrontation? How about we take care of our interests and if cold war starts we make sure we win it.

bleepblorp 6y ago
I don't know if there are any good options at this point. The general position from the US national security elite is that China should not be permitted to become powerful enough to have a completely independent foreign policy. This goal is probably impossible to achieve even trough military force. For China's part, the Chinese need to learn how to get along with the rest of the world, including their immediate neighbors, without threatening other countries on a regular basis. The kind of respect China wants on the world stage can only be created through non-coercive soft power, and that's a skill the Chinese do not have. Ultimately, I think both the US and China need to temper their expectations and learn to live with each other. This may not be politically possible in the long term, and is not politically possible in the US under Republican administrations. In the short term, US moves to destroy Chinese tech firms and effectively transfer their assets to US firms are not helpful for global stability. Chinese tech has no business in government networks, but consumer use of TikTok, WeChat, and Huawei phones is not a security threat and the rule of law should be respected with regard to these brands. If the US doesn't want people to use these tools, then it can make better alternatives. Pervasive privacy abuses by TikTok et el should be addressed through comprehensive privacy legislation that applies equally to US surveillance capitalism firms (e.g. Facebook) and not through bans that exist only to transfer Chinese market share to US firms.
- TheColorYellow 6y ago
  I wholeheartedly agree with everything you're saying and think this is excellent analysis. However, I struggle with this part. > In the short term, US moves to destroy Chinese tech firms and effectively transfer their assets to US firms are not helpful for global stability. I can concede that this action by the US doesn't help move the US-China relationship into a more cooperative one. To your point, however, the US is not willing to move into such a position anyways. So, given the US desire to effect change in their existing US-China relationship, why should the US let things like Huawei and TikTok proceed? It's pretty much par for the course as far as US foreign business relations and policy created by the executive branch.