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1. I'm not super familiar with razors, but I am pretty familiar with knives. The chipping they describe is typical of a knife that is ground with an angle that

1. I'm not super familiar with razors, but I am pretty familiar with knives. The chipping they describe is typical of a knife that is ground with an angle that is too acute. In knives made of hard material they fail by chipping, whereas in knives with a softer edge (think German kitchen knives) the edge rolls instead. The classic solution to this problem is to grind the secondary bevel more obtusely so that there is more material to "support" the edge. This results in a knife that is less sharp, but more durable. That may be a tradeoff that razor manufacturers are not willing to make. 2. There are already steel making processes that are designed to make more homogenous steel. The most famous one is probably CPM (Crucible Particle Metallurgy): Instead of pouring an ingot (where the additives have a chance to settle into a non-homogenous state, they basically pour the steel through something similar to a shot tower - making lots of tiny homogenous micro-ingots that they later fuse together in what is essentially a sintering process. The end result is a much more homogenous ingot. Practical testing shows that steel made in this way is more performant, although it presumably increases the manufacturing cost.

zerocrates 6y ago
"Less sharp, more durable" sounds like it's pretty much all downside if you're in the business of selling razor blades.
mturmon 6y ago
The CPM process you describe sounds similar to so-called PMV-11 steel, which is used in some high-end chisels and woodworking planes. It’s not just marketing, several professionals who are mostly impartial have said its noticeably better than conventional tool steels. There are some nice wear images off the site below as well. http://www.pm-v11.com/Story.aspx http://www.pm-v11.com/Story.aspx
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  Thanks for the link! The images are on these pages: Impact testing: http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingImpact.aspx http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingImpact.aspx Wear testing: http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingWear.aspx http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingWear.aspx Sharpening: http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingSharpening.aspx http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingSharpening.aspx
- nordsieck 6y ago
  Not to derail the conversation, but I spent some time reading about PM-V11. Is there a data sheet somewhere? It looks to me like a mystery steel, which I'm always pretty skeptical of. Specifically: while it's very hard to make a particular steel perform better, it's very easy to make a particular steel perform more poorly. I'm not claiming that they purposefully engaged in malfeasance, I'm just generally skeptical. I'm particularly skeptical of their claim that it outperforms CPM-M4, which is generally used for bladesports[1] for its ability to take a fine edge and resist mechanical edge deformation. I'm not surprised by the difficulty they had in sharpening it, though. ___ 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkemT5ciBnw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkemT5ciBnw
Polylactic_acid 6y ago
>That may be a tradeoff that razor manufacturers are not willing to make. Razors are so cheap ($0.10 each) that there is simply no reason to make them worse in order to last longer when virtually everyone would rather they work as well as possible and spend another 10 cents a week.
- nattmat 6y ago
  Where I’m from Gillette is the popular brand, and they are $5 to $7 each.
  - rgoulter 6y ago
    There are different types of razors. Gillette double-edge safety razor blades are about 0.10 USD each. Gillette cartridge razors are about 6 USD each. The former is "expensive razor handle, cheap blades". The latter is "cheap razor handle, expensive blades". The more expensive cartridge razors don't provide a superior shave, but are much much safer to use. A safety razor handle costs as much as a pack of cartridge razor blades. The keywords to lookup would be "wet shaving" to find out more about the safety razors.
    - canofbars 6y ago
      > but are much much safer to use. You say that like double edge blades are super unsafe. At worst if you are unskilled you end up with a minor cut which you just stick a band aid over and are perfectly fine.
- m463 6y ago
  Unless you are buying gillette blades. Even at costco you can spend almost $50 on a bunch of refills. Unfortunately I seem to have the best shaving experience with gillette blades. I tried Harry's and other brands, but then I tried gillette again and it was markedly better.
  - cbzbc 6y ago
    Skip the flavour of the month and go with their older products - for which the cartridges are far cheaper (especially with frequent deals). I still use the Sensor series cartridges - more blades just makes for more clogging of the cartridges.
55555 6y ago
But would they make more or less money if their blades lasted longer?

zerocrates 6y ago

"Less sharp, more durable" sounds like it's pretty much all downside if you're in the business of selling razor blades.

mturmon 6y ago

The CPM process you describe sounds similar to so-called PMV-11 steel, which is used in some high-end chisels and woodworking planes. It’s not just marketing, several professionals who are mostly impartial have said its noticeably better than conventional tool steels. There are some nice wear images off the site below as well. http://www.pm-v11.com/Story.aspx http://www.pm-v11.com/Story.aspx

ComputerGuru 6y ago
Thanks for the link! The images are on these pages: Impact testing: http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingImpact.aspx http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingImpact.aspx Wear testing: http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingWear.aspx http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingWear.aspx Sharpening: http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingSharpening.aspx http://www.pm-v11.com/TestingSharpening.aspx
nordsieck 6y ago
Not to derail the conversation, but I spent some time reading about PM-V11. Is there a data sheet somewhere? It looks to me like a mystery steel, which I'm always pretty skeptical of. Specifically: while it's very hard to make a particular steel perform better, it's very easy to make a particular steel perform more poorly. I'm not claiming that they purposefully engaged in malfeasance, I'm just generally skeptical. I'm particularly skeptical of their claim that it outperforms CPM-M4, which is generally used for bladesports[1] for its ability to take a fine edge and resist mechanical edge deformation. I'm not surprised by the difficulty they had in sharpening it, though. ___ 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkemT5ciBnw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkemT5ciBnw

Polylactic_acid 6y ago

>That may be a tradeoff that razor manufacturers are not willing to make. Razors are so cheap ($0.10 each) that there is simply no reason to make them worse in order to last longer when virtually everyone would rather they work as well as possible and spend another 10 cents a week.

nattmat 6y ago
Where I’m from Gillette is the popular brand, and they are $5 to $7 each.
- rgoulter 6y ago
  There are different types of razors. Gillette double-edge safety razor blades are about 0.10 USD each. Gillette cartridge razors are about 6 USD each. The former is "expensive razor handle, cheap blades". The latter is "cheap razor handle, expensive blades". The more expensive cartridge razors don't provide a superior shave, but are much much safer to use. A safety razor handle costs as much as a pack of cartridge razor blades. The keywords to lookup would be "wet shaving" to find out more about the safety razors.
  - canofbars 6y ago
    > but are much much safer to use. You say that like double edge blades are super unsafe. At worst if you are unskilled you end up with a minor cut which you just stick a band aid over and are perfectly fine.
m463 6y ago
Unless you are buying gillette blades. Even at costco you can spend almost $50 on a bunch of refills. Unfortunately I seem to have the best shaving experience with gillette blades. I tried Harry's and other brands, but then I tried gillette again and it was markedly better.
- cbzbc 6y ago
  Skip the flavour of the month and go with their older products - for which the cartridges are far cheaper (especially with frequent deals). I still use the Sensor series cartridges - more blades just makes for more clogging of the cartridges.

55555 6y ago

But would they make more or less money if their blades lasted longer?