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What are your views on IP theft by some companies there. Should that be considered first strike by China.
by rtx 6y ago
What are your views on IP theft by some companies there. Should that be considered first strike by China.
- badRNG 6y agoHas Bytedance been implicated in IP theft?
- Craighead 6y agoThe question asked is "has China" and the answer is yes. China has a direct majority stake in technology companies specifically for data collection
- thewarrior 6y agoChina says if you want to set up a factory in China you need to transfer IP. They aren't forcing western companies to invest. Most companies invested voluntarily. And this was seen as mostly OK when the rivalry wasn't as heated.
- karterk 6y agoIt was tolerated in the hope that over time China would open up. But that did not happen. When facts change, time to change your strategy.
- peacefulhat 6y agoWhat does this "open up" actually mean? A bunch of American companies have set up shop in China, which was not possible 50 years ago. Now it's common for huge entertainment properties like blockbuster movies and the NBA to get a massive share of revenue from China. Video game consoles are now legal. And of course, China is now essential in the production of most American products.
- keiferski 6y agoOpen up means become a modern democratic state with respect for human rights, or at the very least, be on the road to one. The opposite has happened and the pundits from the 90s look pretty silly right about now.
- peacefulhat 6y agoAny pundit who thinks the ultimate goal of exchanging goods and services with another country is regime change is a lunatic.
- keiferski 6y agoThis was the predominant geopolitical theory with regards to China for most of the past ~40 years.
- rtx 6y agoI think they always knew this was not going to happen. But how do sell trading with a communist nation after 50 years of Red scare.
- secondcoming 6y agoThere's nothing communist about the CCP any more
- FooBarWidget 6y agoKishore Mahbubani very aptly describes the CCP as the Chinese Civilization Party. That is a much more accurate name.
- Ericson2314 6y agoYour average American voter doesn't know what communism is or whether China is or isn't it. The might have some notion of "big bad central state", and China was and remains that. In any event, some rhetoric to grease the wheels politically absolutely was in order.
- systematical 6y agoBlockbuster? Huh?
- peacefulhat 6y agoCheck out the Chinese box office for American blockbuster movies. China is a huge source of revenue and there's even movies where most of the revenue came from China https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Warcraft#tab=international https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Warcraft#tab=international
- Darmody 6y agoThat's why Lebron James shuts his mouth when China is the subject. He wants to be a hero that fights for people's rights unless there's money involved.
- barbecue_sauce 6y agoBlockbuster is not merely the name of a defunct video rental chain, but also a word that means “hit movie” (popular film that everyone sees).
- FooBarWidget 6y agoTolerated by whom? Those companies aren't owned by the public, or by the US government. The owners/executives of those companies tolerated the practice, because they believed that they could still be profitable and that the risk was acceptable. And profit they did. Do you think they care one bit about ideology? I find it rather strange that so many people throw around the "tolerate in order for China for open up" rhetoric, as if companies invest in China for ideological reasons. Ironically, by forcing those western companies to not do business with China, you are infringing on those companies' freedom to choose for themselves, and violating liberal values. Furthermore, as someone who came from China, that "China did not open up" is completely false. In the past 30 years, China opened up immensely. In the 70s, Chinese could not choose what to wear, could not choose to travel abroad, people could randomly be caught on suspicion of colluding with "the enemy". All of that has changed. Even the latter: the practice of being "reported by your neighbor for suspicious activities" no longer happens, the Cultural Revolution madness is over. Heck, even "not allowed to criticize the government" is no longer true: there are official channels for publishing constructive criticism (emphasis on constructive), and government officials post official replies in the public, and the criticism is listened to without getting you into trouble (the caveat being that you are not allowed to instigate mass protests, or call for overthrow of the government). Sure, it's not equivalent to western democracies, but it did change for the better even if there's still room for improvement. But for some reason, many western people completely ignore this fact and buy into the rhetoric that "China did not open up". It's not even a small fact, it's a huge boulder staring in your face, and people don't see it.
- mikechen233 6y agoChina enacted a new foriegn investment law. It no longer require joint venture, IP transfers. Tesla is able to use this law to built an wholly owned subsidiary and factory in China. A lot of big autos in China are now buying back their ownership in joint venture, previously they were 50% 50%. BMW now fully owns all their operations in China. Also for 50% 50% joint venture, it actually has benefits for foreign companies because it reduced their capital expenditure and split the risks when Chinese market was not a known factor during the early 2000s. For IP transfers, they would most likely be evaluated against the risk and rewards. It's basically buying market access with IP. Companies don't transfers their best IP, but an outdated version. But for Chinese at that time it's still valuable.
- systematical 6y agoWhat do you mean transfer IP? Is that any different than give us your IP?
- topkai22 6y agoIt might have been seen as OK on the business community, but people in the national security community have been freting over it for a long time. For reasons good and bad those views are now in the ascendancy in the political sphere.
- baybal2 6y agoCounterexamples are right around the corner. I myself know like 10 people who came to China and opened factories without any JV involvement. A reputable quote please for who, and when was forced to do an IP transfer
- harpratap 6y agoThe difference between west and CCP is that you follow rule of law, everyone is free until you're proven guilty. If you just replicate what CCP is doing you're admitting that their ideology is superior.
- foogazi 6y agoAre US investors hurt by CCP blocking Google / Twitter from China ? When you reciprocate it’s not because of a superior ideology but because you won’t accept a one-sided transaction
- peacefulhat 6y agoA good clue is how vague your question is. Should bytedance and tencent be banned because of "ip theft" by "some companies?" no
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- icelancer 6y agoBytedance and Tencent are partially owned by CCP. They are not innocent bystanders here.
- peacefulhat 6y agoIs that all it takes to get you on board with a ban?
- sumedh 6y agoWhat is your solution to make the Chinese Govt play by the rules?
- peacefulhat 6y agoThis thread is about the US govt banning foreign companies for no justifiable reason. China sees the US abandon due process to screw over its companies and...? Somehow that leads to improved international legal norms. It doesn't make any sense.
- sumedh 6y agoIt makes complete sense, its tit for tat, China can can arbitrarily impose their rules on foreign companies and now US is doing the same. Either Chinese businesses can lobby the Chinese Govt to make peace with US or the Chinese govt wont listen to them and have a more aggressive stand, only time will tell.
- billfruit 6y agoThere is no evidence of IP theft being established against TikTok and ByteDance. Presumably they don't seem to have broken US laws as of now. Do countries take to banning Boeing, if they find problems with PepsiCo?.
- remarkEon 6y agoNo, but they certainly could if it suited their interests. What I find interesting in this thread is this assumption of both proportionality and rationality from the other party. China isn't, and hasn't, followed the same rules as the rest of the West. Why would we expect them to now? Moreover, from a game theoretical perspective it seems suicidal to act like they will, and then do nothing but complain about them "not following the rules".
- Udik 6y ago> There is no evidence of IP theft being established against TikTok and ByteDance Actually, the forced acquisition of TikTok by MS and its Instagram copy are instances of the US copying from the Chinese.
- DSingularity 6y ago“Intellectual property”. What a joke. Throughout school how many times was I excited by a solution I devised until I realized my same exact approach was already discovered, published, and well known? These problems we are solving first dont entitle is to exclusive right over the solution. We want to kick down the ladder after we climb it. That’s what this is about.
- agdtdudhegsjhs 6y agoThat just means it wasn’t valuable
- secondcoming 6y agoWho is 'we'? Have you not heard of a patent?
- sschueller 6y agoHow is Instagram's Reels not IP theft? "Good artists copy; great artists steal" - Steve Jobs
- fastball 6y agoSoftware is generally harder to pin down than other things when it comes to IP theft, but even so there is still a clear distinction between "stealing" a feature and stealing the actual code that enables that feature. China / Chinese companies have been consistently caught doing the latter. They also do the former but that is not what anyone is complaining about.