4 ms·

> Spend less then you earn, save, don't buy the latest shit. This logic breaks down when you get an unexpected medical bill, or the car you rely to get to your

> Spend less then you earn, save, don't buy the latest shit. This logic breaks down when you get an unexpected medical bill, or the car you rely to get to your job breaks down and you get fired, etc. The latest iPhones and Androids are quite affordable compared to healthcare and rent in this country.

devin 6y ago
Agreed. Monthly healthcare spend for my family is way more than a fresh iPhone. It's not even a particularly good plan. Good luck shopping around for insurance; It's a total nightmare.
karaterobot 6y ago
The article is talking about three months living expenses at poverty level, not unexpected medical bills. The fact that medical procedures are ridiculously expensive if you don't have insurance should not be a reason not to save for emergencies, and it's definitely not related to the findings of the study.
donw 6y ago
> This logic breaks down when you get an unexpected medical bill, or the car you rely to get to your job breaks down and you get fired, etc. How? I have experienced all of those things -- except replace "getting fired" with "my business failed". My "oh shit" fund -- six months' worth of expenses -- got me through every one of those personal disasters. It gave me peace of mind, and the financial space to take care of myself, recover, and get back on the horse. It was empowering. Anybody can do this, if they want. It isn't easy, mind you. It takes a big shift in mindset, time, and in my case, paying the price for a lot of poor decisions. You aren't going to live in a trending part of town, or hit the bar every week. You'll cook at home a lot, probably live in a shared house, might even share a car or ride a bike to work. I've done all of those things. And it is harder than it used to be. Boomers don't get that. Wages are lower. Medical costs are insane -- and neither the establishment Republicans or Democrats have done anything to fix that, mind you. Society encourages people to make horrible decisions, like borrowing insane amounts of money to buy the "college experience" and earn a worthless degree. And the more of those traps you have fallen into, the harder climbing out of the hole will be. Myself, I had to pay off a bunch of stupid debt. But once you start to live below your means, and you experience that freedom, you never want to go back to the spend-everything-you-make lifestyle.
- slavapestov 6y ago
  > I have experienced all of those things -- except replace "getting fired" with "my business failed". If you’re in a position where you can easily start a (nonetheless failing) frivolous social app startup you’re already much more comfortable than most of the country. > And it is harder than it used to be. That’s the point. Certain individuals can still succeed today, but the fact that it is harder now than it was in the past is a point of concern.
  - donw 6y ago
    > If you’re in a position where you can easily start a (nonetheless failing) frivolous social app startup you’re already much more comfortable than most of the country. I did work, hourly, for money.
the_gastropod 6y ago
It’s not about the iPhone (or coffees, avocado toast, etc.) It’s about the habit of unnecessary spending. Many people (obviously not all) could handle unexpected expenses if they had better financial habits.
- slavapestov 6y ago
  > It’s about the habit of unnecessary spending. Many people (obviously not all) could handle unexpected expenses if they had better financial habits. What you call unnecessary spending is what actually floats the entire economy. If everyday folks’ disposable income dries up, the whole country will suffer, even your bullshit startup in a converted loft in SOMA or whatever it is that you do that earns you a six figure living.
  - sifar 6y ago
    >> What you call unnecessary spending is what actually floats the entire economy I get tired how this argument is used to justify so much BS. I think this pandemic has debunked this. You forget the other part that is saving is what generates real capital to invest, not debt.
sifar 6y ago
>> This logic breaks down when you get an unexpected medical bill, or the car you rely to get to your job breaks down and you get fired, etc There seems to be some logical disconnect here. Saving diligently will help you tide over the things you mention. How is this an argument against saving ?
- Balgair 6y ago
  Many medical bills will wipe out savings regardless of the amount. NPR has a good series on medical bills that comes out pretty frequently. Here is one where the 14 weeks of dialysis for a new kidney cost about a half million dollars. The person's insurance is via the spouse who is also a MD. The family is likely going bankrupt : https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/22/743180947/first-came-kidney-failure-then-there-was-the-540-842-bill-for-dialysis https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/22/7431809... Scroll through a few of them, NPR has pretty good reporting on this issue. The US medical system is a revolting tragedy.

devin 6y ago

Agreed. Monthly healthcare spend for my family is way more than a fresh iPhone. It's not even a particularly good plan. Good luck shopping around for insurance; It's a total nightmare.

karaterobot 6y ago

The article is talking about three months living expenses at poverty level, not unexpected medical bills. The fact that medical procedures are ridiculously expensive if you don't have insurance should not be a reason not to save for emergencies, and it's definitely not related to the findings of the study.

donw 6y ago

> This logic breaks down when you get an unexpected medical bill, or the car you rely to get to your job breaks down and you get fired, etc. How? I have experienced all of those things -- except replace "getting fired" with "my business failed". My "oh shit" fund -- six months' worth of expenses -- got me through every one of those personal disasters. It gave me peace of mind, and the financial space to take care of myself, recover, and get back on the horse. It was empowering. Anybody can do this, if they want. It isn't easy, mind you. It takes a big shift in mindset, time, and in my case, paying the price for a lot of poor decisions. You aren't going to live in a trending part of town, or hit the bar every week. You'll cook at home a lot, probably live in a shared house, might even share a car or ride a bike to work. I've done all of those things. And it is harder than it used to be. Boomers don't get that. Wages are lower. Medical costs are insane -- and neither the establishment Republicans or Democrats have done anything to fix that, mind you. Society encourages people to make horrible decisions, like borrowing insane amounts of money to buy the "college experience" and earn a worthless degree. And the more of those traps you have fallen into, the harder climbing out of the hole will be. Myself, I had to pay off a bunch of stupid debt. But once you start to live below your means, and you experience that freedom, you never want to go back to the spend-everything-you-make lifestyle.

slavapestov 6y ago
> I have experienced all of those things -- except replace "getting fired" with "my business failed". If you’re in a position where you can easily start a (nonetheless failing) frivolous social app startup you’re already much more comfortable than most of the country. > And it is harder than it used to be. That’s the point. Certain individuals can still succeed today, but the fact that it is harder now than it was in the past is a point of concern.
- donw 6y ago
  > If you’re in a position where you can easily start a (nonetheless failing) frivolous social app startup you’re already much more comfortable than most of the country. I did work, hourly, for money.

the_gastropod 6y ago

It’s not about the iPhone (or coffees, avocado toast, etc.) It’s about the habit of unnecessary spending. Many people (obviously not all) could handle unexpected expenses if they had better financial habits.

slavapestov 6y ago
> It’s about the habit of unnecessary spending. Many people (obviously not all) could handle unexpected expenses if they had better financial habits. What you call unnecessary spending is what actually floats the entire economy. If everyday folks’ disposable income dries up, the whole country will suffer, even your bullshit startup in a converted loft in SOMA or whatever it is that you do that earns you a six figure living.
- sifar 6y ago
  >> What you call unnecessary spending is what actually floats the entire economy I get tired how this argument is used to justify so much BS. I think this pandemic has debunked this. You forget the other part that is saving is what generates real capital to invest, not debt.

sifar 6y ago

>> This logic breaks down when you get an unexpected medical bill, or the car you rely to get to your job breaks down and you get fired, etc There seems to be some logical disconnect here. Saving diligently will help you tide over the things you mention. How is this an argument against saving ?

Balgair 6y ago
Many medical bills will wipe out savings regardless of the amount. NPR has a good series on medical bills that comes out pretty frequently. Here is one where the 14 weeks of dialysis for a new kidney cost about a half million dollars. The person's insurance is via the spouse who is also a MD. The family is likely going bankrupt : https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/22/743180947/first-came-kidney-failure-then-there-was-the-540-842-bill-for-dialysis https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/22/7431809... Scroll through a few of them, NPR has pretty good reporting on this issue. The US medical system is a revolting tragedy.