4 ms·

I missed the golden age of lisp, but i know this project for its legendary structural editor, SEdit[1], released the year I was born. i found it mentioned in a

I missed the golden age of lisp, but i know this project for its legendary structural editor, SEdit[1], released the year I was born. i found it mentioned in an old paredit readme, something poignant like “paredit is only a shadow of what interlisp was: true structural editing”. [1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsmF8HHskg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsmF8HHskg

dleslie 6y ago
What I find fascinating is less the balancing and structural editing, but that these old lisps _strongly_ embraced the absence of source files. The environment was being edited, and not some text documents.
- galaxyLogic 6y ago
  This is how Smalltalk is and was. Source-code is there but mostly for the purpose of restoring changes from the file change.log in case the "image" crashed. Now, add the change.log file to the version control and you have a block-chain?
  - dleslie 6y ago
    Aye, the thing is... I just haven't "clicked" with the ergonomics of Smalltalk systems. The language isn't too appealing, for starters; if feels too much like I'm using reverse polish notation, or a stack-based programming language. ;)
- cabalamat 6y ago
  > The environment was being edited, and not some text documents. That's all very well until you want to put your code in source control.
  - dleslie 6y ago
    I don't see why the environment itself couldn't be adapted to have modern revision control.
    - eschaton 6y ago
      This is in fact exactly how modern Smalltalk systems interact with source control.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Which Smalltalk environments and SQL databases have tackled already for a couple of decades.
  - varjag 6y ago
    Well, some older Lisps not only did support files, but also file versioning on operating systems allowing for that. You still have provisions for that in ANSI Common Lisp spec.
    - tester89 6y ago
      Where? I’d be curious to read it.
      - varjag 6y ago
        http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_pn_hos.htm http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_pn_h... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versioning_file_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versioning_file_system
kazinator 6y ago
The golden age of Lisp is now. You might not have been one of the lucky few people to have access to the institutional hardware running Lisp during the golden age of Lisp you're referring to.

dleslie 6y ago

What I find fascinating is less the balancing and structural editing, but that these old lisps _strongly_ embraced the absence of source files. The environment was being edited, and not some text documents.

galaxyLogic 6y ago
This is how Smalltalk is and was. Source-code is there but mostly for the purpose of restoring changes from the file change.log in case the "image" crashed. Now, add the change.log file to the version control and you have a block-chain?
- dleslie 6y ago
  Aye, the thing is... I just haven't "clicked" with the ergonomics of Smalltalk systems. The language isn't too appealing, for starters; if feels too much like I'm using reverse polish notation, or a stack-based programming language. ;)
cabalamat 6y ago
> The environment was being edited, and not some text documents. That's all very well until you want to put your code in source control.
- dleslie 6y ago
  I don't see why the environment itself couldn't be adapted to have modern revision control.
  - eschaton 6y ago
    This is in fact exactly how modern Smalltalk systems interact with source control.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Which Smalltalk environments and SQL databases have tackled already for a couple of decades.
- varjag 6y ago
  Well, some older Lisps not only did support files, but also file versioning on operating systems allowing for that. You still have provisions for that in ANSI Common Lisp spec.
  - tester89 6y ago
    Where? I’d be curious to read it.
    - varjag 6y ago
      http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_pn_hos.htm http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_pn_h... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versioning_file_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versioning_file_system

kazinator 6y ago

The golden age of Lisp is now. You might not have been one of the lucky few people to have access to the institutional hardware running Lisp during the golden age of Lisp you're referring to.